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Hello, this is the Migraine Heroes podcast, a podcast where we share real stories from
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real people suffering and battling with migraine disease.
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In this podcast, we seek to provide support, hope, holistic health, advocacy, and inspiration
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for those who suffer from migraine disease.
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The content in this podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered
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a substitute for medical professional advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
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Always consult with your health care provider for any health-related concerns.
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And remember, everyone and every situation is unique.
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Thank you so much for making the time.
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Thank you for sharing your story with us today.
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It's an absolute delight to have you with me.
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Well, I'm really pleased that you want me to share it because I'm so grateful for everything
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you've done for me.
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So at least I can too.
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So how did your migraine journey start?
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Well, I would never have known that I was having migraines, but I can remember like
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my first feeling of a migraine, which I didn't realize was a migraine when I was in my 20s.
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I basically went through university and I did a master's degree and I was really kind
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of like on top of the world.
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It felt really great.
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And then I got my first job and it was a kind of, it was a really horrible environment for me.
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I mean, I was a sports athlete.
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I'm very outdoorsy and I went into working in this little office.
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I got this job working on a educational kind of exercise science magazine.
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So I was, because I write a lot as well, as well as being an active person.
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And so I got this job after doing my master's and I just felt like my whole life kind of
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And it was really stressful.
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And I can remember having to drive out to, and it was quite a long drive from where,
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where I live, where I had to work.
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And I can remember having to go on a Saturday because I hadn't got my job finished.
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I hadn't done enough work and I had to go in.
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It was really high pressure.
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And I remember getting this headache on the way to the job, on the way to the office and
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having to drive and that whole kind of light thing and having to drive on this horrible
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road, which was, it's called the A13, it's like the road to nowhere, it's horrible.
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It was on the way to this job.
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And I arrived at the office and I promptly threw up this migraine.
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And it was kind of like, that's what I felt about my job, literally.
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And I said, I had to get out of this.
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And I did after, didn't immediately, but after about three or four months, I got out of that
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And I've never worked for anyone again since.
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I've always been self-employed, I've always worked for myself because I think I'm a little
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bit of a free spirit and I couldn't cope with that environment I was working in.
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Can we go, can we go, no intent to brush over their pain real fast, can we go back on the
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So you're driving and you're saying, I had the light thing.
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What is the light thing?
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Oh, the light thing, well, just flickering.
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And when you're driving, it's just the worst thing.
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I've had it quite a few times, mostly since, and, you know, you have to stop, but sometimes
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you can't stop straight away.
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And so if you can't, yeah, so the light flickering is just, is, is, is one of the worst things
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because it could be from, it could be from other cars, it could be from natural daylight,
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but then, but then, you know, from the sun, but then you get this kind of, your eyes play
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tricks on you and you get this flickering afterward, you know, it's just kind of there.
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And then that usually leads to an intense headache.
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And then for me, just nausea, just extreme nausea.
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And the three things come together, but the light flickering is always the first.
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You're driving, you're not therefore seeing properly.
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And then you arrive, you have that nausea, building up, building up, building up, and
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then you throw up.
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And then after you throw up, what happens?
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Then it doesn't, the headache doesn't go away, you still got the, the migraine is still there.
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And I just, I have this overwhelming sense to just be in a darkened room.
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And I just have to get into the dark, or I have to lie down.
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And if I'm in a situation where I'm working and I can't, I have to lie down.
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I just, I can't function, I literally can't function.
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And if I'm not at home or, you know, I have to find somewhere to lie down, oh gosh, I've
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laid down in some bizarre places.
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I can remember being with my mum once and having to find somewhere, we were in a theatre
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and we just found a room and there was no one in it.
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And I just said, mum, I just need to go in there.
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And this guy came in and my mum was like, she's really not feeling very well, can we
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And he was like, yeah, it's okay, you can stay.
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And yeah, it's, it's, it's just, it's just overwhelming.
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And there's nothing, you know, the throwing up actually helps, makes you feel better.
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But it doesn't, it doesn't completely take it away.
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And I suppose that's, without realising it, that is the connection to the stomach, isn't
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Which, which I hadn't, I hadn't realised at all, at all.
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I had no idea that my migraines were anything to do with my stomach, didn't know that.
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And so, and so, and so in that situation, so now you're in your office and you've vomited
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and now you have this massive pain and then, and then what happened?
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Well, in that situation, that was a long time ago.
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I can't remember, but, but luckily I had friends who was coming to meet me.
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And from what I remember, I think she drove me back home.
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I don't, I didn't do the work, I know that.
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And, but I was supposed to be going on to do something else afterwards.
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And I, I ended up not doing it.
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And yeah, you just, you just can't, you can't function and, and you lose days because of
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And that's, and that's the, the worst thing really.
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And I'm, I'm a real kind of like, I'm not someone that can, I don't rest particularly
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I like moving a lot.
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I like doing things.
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Um, I've had to learn to be more comfortable with just resting, which is probably why I
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kind of do a lot more holistic movement now.
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I used to say I used to be more an athlete.
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And so I, I started doing martial arts, um, in my twenties and thirties because I needed
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to find another channel and then, and then I moved on to doing yoga and pilates and other
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In that phase of your life, um, how long, you know, how long would these migraines last
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So they can go on for days and days.
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And I think the thing is, I never realized that, you know, the aura that people talk
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about, I never realized I had that either.
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Um, you know, so the things like this, the smells and just feeling out of sorts.
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And I would think, oh, I'm just really tired.
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I'm not sleeping very well.
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Or, um, or maybe it's connected to my period or, you know, just that, that, just that feeling
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really out of sorts.
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And it was that, that, that aura feeling.
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And yeah, the smells, you know, the, the, the light sensitivity comes on more quickly,
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but that, that smell can be there for days beforehand.
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And then afterwards, it's like a, I have a brain fog and it just carries on for like,
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it could, I've had somewhere it's carried on for about 10 days.
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It's not feeling great.
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Sometimes it's, it's quicker.
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I think it depends on how severe the hole.
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Cause it's also, after you have that really bad migraine, it's like it's all your energy.
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It's really, it's like the biggest endurance run I've ever done.
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You know, and that, that is, it really enlapses your energy.
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Cause it really doesn't switch your personality.
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I have to say like, you're such a living, like full of life, full of energy, full of
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sports, full of, you know, everything.
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And, um, so probably, I mean, it's frustrating too.
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Really frustrating, really frustrating.
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And I, as I said, like the idea of, I mean, for me to actually stay in bed for 24 hours,
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it's just unheard of.
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You know, I'm an early riser and I just, I love, I, I, you know, I, I'm, I'm really
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lucky in that I do work for myself and I love my life and I love what I do and, and I enjoy
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So, um, but I, I do think that, that I carry a lot of stress.
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Um, and this is, this is me recognizing the need to kind of have that balance in, in,
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Um, and again, when I was younger, I would never have known that this could be, you know,
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you could call it anxiety.
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And like when I worked in that job, um, it was, if I look back at it now, it was a really
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kind of like the boss was so really kind of overpowering man.
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He didn't allow us to do things that, that we should have been able to do in that kind
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of work environment.
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It was supposed to be a sports environment and we couldn't go out for a run at lunchtime,
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you know, stupid things like that.
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And, and, um, I would never have known at that time that I was stressed.
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I would never have seen it as stress.
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Um, uh, and also I'm a perfectionist without being a perfectionist.
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If that's, you know, like I want to do the best I possibly can.
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Um, uh, and I don't always achieve that.
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And then I think that gives me stress.
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You're striking for perfection.
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So you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself, uh, which needs to, yeah.
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More energy, cause then more thoughts in your mind.
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And so how did you go from that horrible job to you with the trajectory?
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Well, I, I don't actually don't really talk about yoga because I teach, I practice yoga
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quite a lot, but I actually teach my own style of, of, of holistic class, which is a flow
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class, which includes a lot of yoga, but I didn't kind of like find yoga.
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Um, I practiced it, but I'm very much, um, you know, with all my, my work, I'm very creative
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and I, and I, um, having a sports science background, I'm very, um, very interested
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in the body and physicality of the body and how we move and how we're meant to move.
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And that's why I really like martial arts as well, because martial arts are ancient
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like yoga is ancient, but they, martial arts has an incredible purpose, which is to defend
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the body if one thinks it's a fighting and it's an aggressive, but actually it's not,
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it's very, um, it's, it's very peaceful.
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The, especially the, the, the martial arts that I I've done and, um, it finds ways to
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use the body in its most powerful way.
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So I was absolutely fascinated by this because I understand mechanics and I wanted to learn
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So I kind of created my own style of class and I also learned so many different styles
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of movement and my, my focus has always been on women.
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And the fact of it is, is that, that you look at any, well, you look at anatomy books, look
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at Grey's anatomy, it's all based on a male model.
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So, you know, the female anatomy would always be put into a tiny picture to one side.
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Every single anatomy picture is, is male.
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Um, uh, so, and, and in sports science, every, every bit of research is always traditionally
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being done on men.
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And it's still, it's, it's getting better, but about 70% of, of, um, research, particularly
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in the sports field is done on, is done on men.
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So I really wanted to focus on women and my research and my masters was on women.
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So, so, um, I really got into, interested into pregnancy, postnatal training.
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So actually my practice isn't about, about exercise.
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So it's about making exercise prep for women, um, women of all ages.
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So, so I, I, I do, um, a style of, of holistic movement, which includes some martial arts,
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um, uh, includes Pilates.
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I'm a trained Pilates teacher, um, and yoga and breath work.
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And I use yogic breath over Pilates breath.
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Pilates breath is not scientifically sound.
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And, um, yogic breath, like, like how you breathe in martial arts, it's just ancient
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practice, which, which makes sense.
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Some of it doesn't for me.
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Um, but the, the Jaya breath, which is the sound of the ocean.
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So that's the nose breathing.
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And I've recently done even more training on, and there's so much science behind nose breathing.
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And that's literally something I've really worked on very recently in with doing your
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Um, and the combination of those, I think has really made a difference to my, to my
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So now I'm, um, I, I want to get to a hundred percent apart from when I'm speaking, because
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you can't nose breathe when you're speaking.
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But, um, I want to get to as much nose breath as I can.
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And it's where now I do really hard training with my, with my nose.
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Um, and a lot of athletes are now doing this.
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So, so if you look at like weight training or strength training, they'll do various different
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types of breath techniques and it's all with the mouth.
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And, um, one of the things that's really interesting, actually go back to my migraines
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is, um, this, you know, kind of lack of, um, or dryness.
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Um, although with the Chinese medicine, I get confused whether it's dampness or dryness.
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I get, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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But, um, I, I know that you lose so much water when you talk through your mouth.
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So that's the other thing.
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And I'm very, yeah.
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Which is a symptom.
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It's a real symptom.
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Like women who say I'm constantly thirsty and I can't drink enough to quench my thirst.
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It's definitely a symptom.
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The nose breathing has become a really powerful tool to me.
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So now I teach that, um, it's also diaphragmatic breath.
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And then to my other love, which is the pelvic floor and the pelvis itself.
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And for women, we detect ourselves from the pelvis so much because of the trauma that we
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have there for various different reasons, whether it's sexual, whether it's, whether
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it's because of childbirth, we, we, we tend to, um, move away.
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And when we talk about the chakras and this area of the body, um, uh, it's something that
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I really want women to connect to more.
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So I always look at it from a scientific perspective, but I'm very, very interested
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from the holistic perspective too, which is why I love what you do.
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You know, there's something I sometimes explain, you know, when we meet, um, we have that first
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conversation and first conversation, I'm, I'm tying up all of your symptoms to your
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root causes and therefore to your migraines.
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Um, and sometimes I will explain on something about breath, which I'll explain to you now.
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I don't know if we talked about it, the two of us, but I don't explain it often because
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I find it doesn't resonate.
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But here's the thing.
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I was reading a book on, um, athletes and the body of, uh, written by women for women.
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Um, and they were saying that the way the female body is structured, we breathe more
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time per day, a lot more time per day than men.
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So, um, if you were asking like a five-year-old draw me a woman and a man, they're going to,
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you know, draw something tall and straight for a man.
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And then they might draw something slightly shorter and slightly, you know, not as straight
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of it's, you know, wide in some angles and narrow in some others for women.
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And, you know, I tried to explain the way we're structured.
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And the reason why we breathe more is so that diaphragm we can massage more often the liver
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because our hormones are a lot more complicated than men's hormones.
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So men's hormones have, there's one, we have three.
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Um, and so our system is a lot more complicated.
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And so we need to beat.
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So the same way we have a heart beat, we also have a liver beat.
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And so that really matters in context of stress and how the impact of stress, therefore on
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And, and, and it's fascinating what you say, cause I never thought of how unpushed it has
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been like, you know, in martial arts or in so many sports, how we don't really look at
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women's anatomy, which is completely designed for another purpose.
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So, yeah, I love that.
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It's, it's, you know, even, even down to, um, and obviously I'm, my, my expertise is
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all about muscles, but even down to our muscle makeup is completely different, you know,
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so we, we have far more slow twitch muscle fiber than men do.
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So, and, uh, and the way we metabolize fats, you know, we're, we're much more built for
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endurance and, and, and it's a lot to do with, with the fact that we, you know, we, we, we
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can carry children and we have to have this.
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You should write a book, Jean, this fascinating topic, because there's so like some of it's
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like observation and intuition and research and this forming that new body of knowledge,
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Which takes a lot of patience and a lot of love.
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I mean, Jean, a lot of people that are listening to us, they, they have the dream to have your
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life, you know, like a lot of women, they dream to have their own job, their own as
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an entrepreneur, their own practice.
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Um, and, and migraine really stands in the way and for so many years, if not decades,
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you've been a warrior, um, with migraines that used to last for, on average, we were
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looking at your data just before on average, a solid five days of pain and, and they would
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be decently frequent.
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So can you walk us through from that first moment you have that stress to the, the life
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that you've designed for you with so much creativity, right?
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The way you designed your own role and, and, and job, and I'm sure that Dean writes that
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book, like that freedom.
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Um, can you walk us through what did that look like?
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Yeah, I think, I think I've always, um, you know, if I go back to before I had that job,
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I've, I've always, um, you know, going back to my, my, my father died when I was very
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young, so I was brought up by a woman.
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I am a single woman myself with two children and my mother very much brought me up to be
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independent and to very much, um, you know, know that I can, I can do, do pretty much
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everything myself.
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So I was never restricted in my early life.
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I was, you know, so, so I, I'd done my masters by the time I was 21, 22.
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I did it, I did it in a very short length of time.
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And because I had no restrictions on me, no one was telling me, you know, you can't do
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My mum was just very much like this and I feel the same way with my kids.
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I'm very much kind of like, you know, I want you to go out and experience the world.
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And I, and I think because I had that kind of nurturing, which was very, um, very freeing
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that I've always had that, had that mindset.
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And, you know, I would never, I would never think that a migrant would get me down, you
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know, to the point where I wouldn't then pick myself up again.
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And I, and I think that I would always, it would always make me slow down.
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It would, I would have to slow down, but it would never actually stop me from doing what
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I wanted to, because the great thing about being self-employed and working for yourself
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is that you're not, you know, it's not like a nine to five job.
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You can choose to do things that you otherwise wouldn't be able to do, you know, and, and
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Um, and I, I work abroad quite a lot and the sort of things that I, I climb mountains for
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a living, you know, I, I take women on trips to mountains and, and, you know, that sort
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And that's my job.
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And I know when I'm doing that, I will not get a migraine.
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And I think that is really important for people to, to, to trust their own, their own self.
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And that when you are doing things that you're really at one with, and you know are you,
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and you are really about you and that you are comfortable with, your body is in a state
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of parasympathetic state, that state of calm.
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And I never, I never fear a migraine.
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And I think it's partly because, um, I never know when they're going to come because I
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would never, I do now because you've helped me tune into them so well, but I would never,
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um, fear them early on because I didn't even know they were migraines, because I think
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you have to trust in your own body.
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And I'd found my way of coping with them, which wasn't great before I met you, but I
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knew I would come out the other side.
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And I think that's, there's, you know, we have to trust in ourselves.
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And I think this is why what you do is so important because in Western medicine, we
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We don't listen into our bodies.
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We don't actually think of doing things that are preventative rather than, you know, taking
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a pill just to, to dull your senses.
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And I've always been about tuning into your body.
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What I, what I haven't ever done before though, which you told me to do is to tune into my
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organs and that connection with the organ's brain.
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So I'm very much about muscles, about, yes, connected to the nervous system, connecting
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to the brain, but from a, from a very much a kind of a movement, a functional movement
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So you've taught me to, to do it from a, from an organ perspective.
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Um, and I, and I think that's, that's really, really helped me.
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Um, and you've helped me get, take away whatever fear was left from a migraine perspective.
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But I think that's, that has definitely helped me is that absolute belief in myself, which
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has waned at times, like when I was in that job, when I was married and I didn't have
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a happy relationship, you know, and definitely my migraines would get worse at those points
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I think, um, yeah, just having that trust and belief in yourself and not letting anyone,
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you know, like this idea that migraines aren't anything, you know, this idea that, that,
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that we, you know, they're not something that we should, we, we, you know, just take a pill
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and they'll, and knock them out of the way and an aggressive approach to migraines, which
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is what Western medicine is.
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Um, it's so not in tune with us as women.
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And, you know, that's also what I think is that patriarchal type of world we live in.
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And we have to, we have to absolutely, um, see through that and know that, you know,
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our migraines are almost a part of that, I feel.
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And, and that we can, you know, we, we, we can, um, we can see beyond them.
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We absolutely can see beyond them, especially when we tune into ourselves.
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With migraine disease, we only have each other to make a difference.
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If you know of someone suffering from migraine attacks, share this podcast with them.
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I'm really, really, really deeply touched.
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I mean, you know, whenever we work together, I feel I get to know you along the side, but
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now it's a whole new level of you that I'm getting and it really touches me.
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I find the way you stand up as almost a tribal woman between your mom and you and, and, and,
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and your children and you learn, like, I so much see the connection with the martial arts now.
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Like how do you defend yourself, uh, with, um, grace, you know, with elegance, um, and
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a way of intention, um, and maybe to some extent migraines are that too.
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If you allow me the analogy as of, Hey, you know, don't touch this, don't touch that.
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We are, um, the very bunnies that give life.
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And so there are things you can't do with us.
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You can't put us under massive pressure.
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You can't put us under massive strain.
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You can't put us under, you know, like under sort of some form of bullying or toxic relationship,
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you know, like just respecting the body and respecting who you are.
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And there's one thing that you in martial arts, which, um, is the first form of defense
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is not being there.
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So, so the first form of defense is sensing and, um, knowing that a situation is, is,
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is potentially dangerous or aggressive, but you take yourself out of that situation.
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So, and that is the, the way that you have taught me to deal with my migraines.
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You know, it's that, it's that, um, uh, treating, you know, not treating the, the, the, the
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migraine itself, but treating the root cause of it.
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It's that preemption, um, stop yourself going into that migraine and requires so much, um,
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attention to yourself, you know, to be able to sense as a martial artist, to be able to
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sense that, that tension in the air, that, that sensor, you know, I was saying to you
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about how I just didn't even know that I had the aura.
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I didn't know the smell sensitivity to smells was a part of a migraine.
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I wasn't aware of all of that.
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And, um, you know, and I, and I think that's, it's, it's a really important part of us to,
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to really listen and go quiet on ourselves.
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That's fascinating because one of the things, um, and we just added that on the app is, um,
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it's called becrestor.
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It's just, uh, some things that are, uh, some situation in which you shouldn't be because
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they're going to make you go worse, um, and just, they slow down your progress.
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And so we now decided to make it very explicit with women.
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Um, uh, and one of the situation is being around someone who is really toxic.
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So we have realized, um, over time that sometimes a woman's doing better, better,
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better, and then she has really strong emotions and we can pick it up.
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And we tell her, is there something going on in your life?
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And she's like, Oh, this is spooky.
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And I was like, well, because a few patterns, um, changed.
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Um, and so we talk about it and we explore it and we're like, don't be mean to that person
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or don't be, just try to be neutral.
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Just say yes to say, you know, like the empty in the, in the relationship and just extract
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yourself away a little bit until the storm passes.
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It's exactly what you're referring to with the martial arts as not being there.
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If the situation is dangerous, just don't show up.
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Um, and, and, and we're saying, you know, we're asking, can you, can you show up less
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in that relationship?
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Can you, you know, you know, to be bullied, there needs to be a relationship.
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Can you undo that slightly?
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Um, so that it respects you.
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Um, and you know, because it can be a source of, um, a source of, of very negative emotions
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that then translate into migraines.
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Um, yeah, definitely, definitely.
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So what's the second, the second, like, you know, like now you're really intrigued.
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Oh, well, the second is to be able to run very fast, actually.
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You create as much space between you and the dangerous possible.
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So, so yeah, run out the way.
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So, so you learn all these, uh, different kind of ways to defend yourself, but actually
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the whole idea is, you know, so I, I never, never did competitive martial arts or anything
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I just wanted to learn it from, from the, the art as it, cause it's an art.
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And then, uh, so woman living in London, you know, it's, um, important to be able to defend
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yourself if you needed to.
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But what, what I never put myself in a situation where, where, where anything dangerous could
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And it, you know, it, it, it's, people think of it as something that's, as I say, that's
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very forceful and aggressive, but it couldn't, it's, it's actually the opposite.
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If it's, if it's done in a, in a good way, if it's, there's a lot of more modern martial
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arts, which aren't like that, but the very old one I did, did a form of karate called
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Wadaru, which is a really old, old, it's Japanese actually.
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And so, um, so you go through all of that phase and you, you turn into your buddy and
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you're the massive faith you have that no matter what, you'd be able to achieve your
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goals in spite of the migraines.
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Like the migraine is just part of, part of the toolkit and it's there, but it's just
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not going to eat away your dreams.
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And that's fundamentally what I love.
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Um, I love, I would agree with, right.
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I find, um, a migraine can be taken.
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Um, please don't take this wrong.
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As a, as a, almost as a superpower, I really think that in Haitian times it wasn't, um,
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you know, a mechanism of extra sensations, um, to protect society.
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Now, otherwise, why would that gene or so many people with that gene, um, have made
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it, you know, all the way to now?
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And so do you have that belief?
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And then, and then how did you, um, I don't remember that.
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How did you find me or how did you come across my work?
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And the period party with Nikon Jardim, maybe?
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Gut Brain Axis or, um, uh, Seed or, oh, PCOS?
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No, I'm just looking it up now.
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I'm trying to think, um, Ronan Perrin, of course, maybe not.
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Anyway, you found me through a podcast.
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I found you through a podcast.
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So I was listening.
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So the period party with Nikon Jardim, the Gut Brain Axis.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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So I listened to that and, um, and I just loved the way you were talking and just doing, filling
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in the questionnaire was so useful because of the questions that you asked me.
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And, and also this, this whole idea of treating the root cause.
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And I, and I think that that was so important.
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And I, I knew that there was something, some kind of connection with my stomach because
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I would throw up and, but I didn't really understand.
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And I didn't really connect it to the IBS symptoms as well, which I've realized that,
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you know, there was obviously is a connection there as well.
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And then, and then we said that you ate your food.
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Like, did you have any special feelings about that or?
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I think I found some of it hard.
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I won't, won't laugh.
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I'm just like, uh, right.
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I've shopped differently now and I've got to, but once I got into this thing of that,
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and there were a few things I didn't want to try.
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I was like, oh, do I really want to try that?
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Um, and just, just like penny dropping moments that like, um, foods that obviously didn't
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agree with me that I'd eaten all my life.
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And also I eat quite a lot of as well.
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And it just, there was, there was a sense of calm over my foods.
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It brought a sense of calm, which, which, um, and one of the things I'm really bad at
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because I'm always on the go is I eat too quickly.
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You know, just something as simple as that, just chewing your food slowly.
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And, um, I still am guilty actually of eating too quickly, but, um, I've got one child who's
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a really slow eater and one who's a really quick eater.
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So I'm trying to listen in on my slower eating child and eat at their pace.
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And so that's why we have the chat, right.
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And that we encourage you and we try to follow each of you because, you know, all of you
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have different patterns for you.
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There's more type of the head migraine and a bit of fogginess and a tiny bit of dizziness
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also when we got started with Aura.
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And it's interesting how the body then changes and other symptoms sort of fade away.
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Was there anything that struck your mind among some of these symptoms or?
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Yeah, I think, um, the connection with the, with your bowel movements as well, you know,
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and, um, I mean, I, I, I, as I say, I do a lot of work with the pelvic floor in my work
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because it's essential for women and a lot of women have a lot of issues because they'll
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have issues with prolapse.
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I mean, 50% of women have prolapsed organs, uh, pelvic organs.
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And so this is something that I deal with a lot and women have a lot of issues with
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their bowel movements.
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And also there's a lot of fear, there's a lot of shame, there's a lot of, um, embarrassment
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And I just love how you're really frank about it and, you know, and, and having to record
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it every single day.
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And anyone that's listening to this, I want to say to you now, don't be kind of bashful
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You know, it's our same way we are and our attitude towards sex.
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Sometimes we kind of, particularly in the UK, we're very, you know, English reserved.
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You know, you've got to be really kind of interested in this stuff because it's so
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You know, we kind of like brush it to one side, but you really made me realize the
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connection and how important your bowel movements are.
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Um, and, and I am so conscious of how we hold so much tension and fear around that part
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And clearly if you're eating foods that are not at one with you, it's going to affect
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you in, in that way.
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What I hadn't realized was the connection all the way up to the head.
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Uh, uh, and you know, so all, all of those things I think are incredibly powerful and
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make so much sense.
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You know, it just, it all makes sense.
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I have this vivid memory that is coming back to life, um, of a woman, um, saying, sending
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me an emoji saying, Oh, good poop.
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And she sends me the poop emoji.
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So like, Oh, good poop.
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It's like, how is yours?
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And I replied, how is your skin?
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It's like, well, now that you mentioned it, three people commented on it.
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That's really good.
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And I'll be like, yeah, good poop, good skin.
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And she was like, really?
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I'm like, Oh yeah, really?
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And, uh, so yeah, that's, that is important.
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I mean, we talk a lot about skin, you know, more about, you know, microbiome and therefore
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bowel movements and how they're, they're formed and how they can actually anticipate
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a migraine or you can, you know, get sweaty things.
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And it's interesting what you say, like some foods that people eat that don't correspond
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them well, like in the migraine world, we talk a lot about triggers, uh, for example,
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wine being a trigger.
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I think you, you, you, you stopped that.
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It's not that we're going to talk about that in a minute.
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Um, uh, wine being a trigger and because they see the trigger as the immediate foods that
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will trigger them.
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But when we built in the app, the trigger list, we built it slightly wider and we're
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like, well, these foods, even though they appear very healthy, they're going to make
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something way quicker.
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So it's not like we're asking you not to have them, but we're asking you to be mindful.
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If you have them daily, then, you know, maybe question your daily routine.
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Cause maybe it's even a food you don't like that much and you're trying to be healthy
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with it and it's making things worse.
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And so triggers can be immediate.
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They can also be very slow.
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And so can we comment a little bit?
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We were discussing together before about alcohol in your life or out of your life.
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Oh, well, I've realized that, well, the thing for me was this wake up in the middle of the
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night and I know it's really common for women my age.
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So I know that, you know, I'm post-menopause or have been post-menopause for a long time.
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For the people who, you know, again, I should know that fact.
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I mean, you appear so much younger, like in your energy and activity of your life.
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You know, when I was re-reading your notes, she was like, oh, she's gone through menopause,
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probably a bit early.
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I'm like, okay, sure.
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Definitely having you 10 years younger in my mind.
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No, so what it is because I've been doing my skin's a lot better.
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And the last six months was probably it.
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But so it was the waking up and it was you who really brought that home to me was I wake up
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between two and three in the morning.
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And if I've got any kind of anxiety or stress going on, I do not go back to sleep.
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So my sleep can be really, really poor.
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You said that's the liver.
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That's your liver waking you up.
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And I've been really tuning into when I do drink and when I don't drink.
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And we all know that alcohol is a stimulant, et cetera, et cetera.
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But what I hadn't realized was that alcohol is just absolutely causing my liver stress.
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And why do I get these migraines?
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And you talk about the genetic factor.
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And I know the history in my family is we have issues around the organs and the liver
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There's various factors in my family and genetic causes and stuff around those organs.
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And this is why I love what I've learned over the last few months, because it's really tuned
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So I'm now tuning into my liver.
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And like even just one glass of wine, I would still wake up between two.
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It's just like that.
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You know, my liver's waking me up and saying, don't have that anymore.
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It's telling me not to do that anymore.
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And it's funny for me.
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It's going to happen five times a year.
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But each time it happens, I fall asleep afterwards easily.
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But I have that big question of, oh, what time is it?
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And indeed, like, you know, I, since I've been working with all the Jews, so why is
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part of the brain, I've quit alcohol.
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I mean, I've quit it.
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I always accept a glass and I would always, you know, pretend I have a sip and then I
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Like, it just, you know, it takes away the joy of life, you know.
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But I mean, I've stopped drinking the now.
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I'm not going to say I'm never going to drink, but I have to.
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But my whole attitude to it now is totally different.
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It's the same with a lot of, you know, like some of the foods that I used to eat a lot
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Why would I want to do that when I know it's going to cause me so much over the next 24
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It's going to cause so much disruption and it's stopping me from doing what I want to
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And that's only momentary.
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But it's not, is it?
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Because it's our long-term health as well.
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And who knows what the research is going to end up saying about alcohol and the effects
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It definitely is not something that I can justify or really think has a good reason
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And I don't always take it one day at a time.
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And it's easy at the moment to do it because it's January and there are no special
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I would say that I do remember, like during Christmas, I was like, oh, I love Sauternes.
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For the ones who know when that is.
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Yeah, I love that.
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So look, is there anything that you'd like to share or any final thoughts on your story,
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on your trajectory, and also to women who are listening, to women, men and children
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who are listening to us?
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I think don't despair.
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And sometimes when you're in that real deep, deep hell hole of a migraine where you're
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feeling so dreadful and you're thinking there's that fear, well, it's only going to happen
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again, you know, because you're thinking, oh, then I'm going to come out of this, but
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then it's going to happen again because it always has happened again.
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And that you can absolutely get out of that.
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And I never used to worry about the next migraine, but I know a lot of people do.
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And I think what the real revelation for me has been that now I recognize the signs, like
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I can completely control it so I don't go into that depth of despair and into that pain
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and that sickness and losing all those days.
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And I'm not saying it's never going to happen because, you know, I might not have my wits
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I might not be able to control a situation.
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Something may happen.
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But it's like having tools, you know, you've got all these tools in your toolbox.
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And it's never just one solution.
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You know, again, this is the Western medicine thing.
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Or if you're just taking up one pill, you know, I always think of it like a spider's
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web and you're in the center and you've got all these different things that can
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can move and like kind of like spokes of a wheel going out.
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One is one type of food.
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One is your anxiety and your stress and your relationships.
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And there's all these things going on around you and you can't control them all at the
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But you can manage some of them.
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Like I can manage alcohol, not drinking it.
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I can manage my foods.
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I can't always manage my sleep, but I can.
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You know, so you can keep on working on these things all the time.
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And you as long as you keep you in the center, I think you can you really can take away that
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fear of migraines.
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And who knows, maybe even when you take away that fear, then the migraines will lessen
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And I loved what you said about the fact that maybe migraines actually are a superpower.
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Maybe we've been chosen to.
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I don't believe in any particular God, but there's something out there I know.
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But maybe we've been chosen to have these migraines because we are warriors and that
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it's going to teach us something, because by addressing your migraine and listening
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into it, you learn so much.
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You not only learn about yourself, but you learn about how to help other people.
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I'm making everyone drink tea infusions now.
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So I think it's really powerful, you know, and I think you can do that with anything.
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And I've always seen that through life.
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You know, something could really knock you back and you can let it knock you back.
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Or you can go, right, no, I'm going to listen in as to why that happens and I'm going to
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not go down the same path.
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I'm going to change my trajectory.
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I'm going to move down a different path.
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And there's always hope and belief in yourself.
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And that's the main thing, is to believe in yourself, that you can move away from it
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Thank you so much, Jane.
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Thank you so much for your inspiration, for your wisdom, for all of that you've learned
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from your mum throughout your life and through these martial arts.
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It's been a fascinating conversation, super inspiring.
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Oh, I've enjoyed hearing it.
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Remember, sharing is caring.
[44:39]
Share your story with me.
[44:41]
Take my free test and let's connect to help you gain a deeper understanding of your migraine
[44:48]
Learn about the underlying imbalances that could be contributing to your genetic predisposition
[44:55]
Join our community of migraine heroes.
[44:57]
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