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Welcome to Migraine Heroes, a podcast for anyone living with migraine and
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wondering why nothing has fully worked yet. I'm Diane Ducarme. Over the past
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seven years, I've helped hundreds of people living with migraine. What I've
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learned? No two migraine stories are exactly the same and none of them are
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simple. That is why, in this podcast, we explore migraine from many different
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angles. Food, hormones, stress, sleep, the nervous system, emotions, and much more
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through the lens of both modern science and traditional Chinese medicine. A quick
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note before we start. What we talk about here is educational. For anything
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related to diagnosis or medication, please keep working with your doctor. Now
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take a deep breath and let's dive in. Welcome, Jiaya. Thank you so much for
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being with me today. Of course. I'm happy to be here. So to get into it, I just
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wanted to hear from you where you're from and if you can share with your
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audience about your family life and your context. Of course. Sure. So I live in San
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Francisco. I'm a mom. I have a toddler daughter. I'm married. I work in finance
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and accounting for a fast-paced private company. And yeah, I'm trying to juggle
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things sometimes more successfully than other days, but juggling a lot on my
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plate and happy to have met you. It's become easier to juggle now that we've
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met. Very good. So busy, having a doll is not always easy. Exactly. Yeah. And so in
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your life, at some point you start to have migraines. Do you want to comment a
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bit on how that came about? Yeah. They first came on when I was early in
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college. So this was now nearly 20 years ago. And I took school very seriously. I
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was like, you know, very eager to get good grades and really like strive. But I
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think that brought on a lot of stress to my body. And so I began getting migraines
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on days where I was really pushing myself. Historically, they used to go away
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with a rest or a nap. But then like as the years progressed, they got worse and
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not necessarily as easy to solve for with a rest or a nap. So they start and
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they start a bit more. Maybe initially you think of them as a headache. Yeah. At
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first I thought of them as a headache since I didn't have the aura and some of
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the other symptoms that are common of migraines. Were you aware of those
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symptoms? I roughly knew I had asked doctors early on and they would ask me,
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you know, the very like, did I have the very typical symptoms of migraines? And
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since my answers were no, we all thought they were headaches for a long time.
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Okay. Very good. And so for how many years roughly? That was 20 years ago. Yeah.
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It's a long time when you think of it, right? Yeah. Over half my life. Yeah. Over
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half your life. And I think that's something that resonates with people.
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Like sometimes, you know, you go through your day to day with your pain, but then
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sometimes you take a step back and you're like, wow, enough is enough. Like
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20 years, you know, what more? And so then what happens now? They're increasing.
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Yeah, they're increasing. Once I started my career, you know, I just learned, you
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know, hope for the best, try and like get through it. I eventually found a
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neurologist who prescribed the many triptans and I finally found some relief
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from that. So that got me through for a handful of years where I like pillaged
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away some of those pills, which are quite costly. I pillaged them away and I
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use them very sparingly for the really serious migraines. And so that worked for
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about 10 years. Can you explain the word that you use? So you would cut them into
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small pieces, you mean? Yeah, my insurance would only support me with getting six
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of those pills per month. And still they cost me $5. That's like with the
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insurance's support. So I use them very sparingly. Some women have migraines when
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the stress increases. Some women have migraines when the stress decreases. What
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was it like for you? I noticed that mine often came, you know, it was more midday.
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It's like I had been dealing with the average amount of stress, but a typically
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pretty stressful day. I noticed that there's a correlation with fatigue in my
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body and oftentimes like some pain in my neck and back. And the neurologist had
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also suggested the migraines seem to be of a type called cervicogenic migraines.
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And so now you're at your work, then do you refuse promotion? Or are you less
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aggressive with work? Or do you commit less? Like how do you cope with the
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working relationship, anticipation of a migraine when there's like big deadlines?
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To be honest, I just tried to charge through it, because they were just so
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like frequent, like, I couldn't necessarily not do my job. But I
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honestly didn't feel obviously I didn't feel at my best. And I was just trying to
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like get through the day, my head wasn't as clear and solid as I felt on non
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And so at that stage, who's giving you support? So you shared a bit with your
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And yeah, my most recent manager I shared with on a day where I just really need
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to go lay down, I was like out of commission. And I shared with him, I
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think the next day, and he was like, Oh, you know what, I actually have a close
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friend, and she specializes in treating migraines with a less traditional route.
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And so obviously, that's how we connected through his referral and
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Yeah, I think the giving in and sharing with your manager is something extremely
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rare. Yeah. So I really want to acknowledge that it's really, really nice
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on the West Coast, that people say that. And so yes, so you're at a commission,
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can you describe a little bit like you're physically together?
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Like, if I'm in a video call with a colleague, like, I'm like, I have my head
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in my hands. And just like, you know, like, apologizing for like, not
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honestly, like being able to remember, like, some of the context of some of the
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work we're working on. And I just know that, like, I'm just like, yeah, pulling
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myself barely through the day. And in those cases, like, I really just need to
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go lay down and have zero intake, and be expected nothing of until I feel
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better. Those days were escalating these last few years, I think, you know,
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having my daughter to juggle and the stresses of the pandemic, and yet life
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just becoming increasingly more demanding, and less time for myself to
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like be able to go rest when I really need to.
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Yeah, there's never a dull moment, like from the moment you're a working mother,
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you're either mothering or working or trying to keep your body together the
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rest of the time, like going to the gym, or just, you know, still fitting in some
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level of clothes or
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Yeah, I tell folks, like, sometimes I feel like I've lived a lifetime before I like
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even get to my desk at 9am. It's like, you know, you've dealt with like, someone
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waking up at 5am having tantrums, and needing this and that. It's just like to
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even show up to work at nine, it's like, you're already burnt out.
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And that's so much resonates, I have two children, they're older now, they're 12
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and nine. And it's, you know, what you see, like, before you get to work, you've
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had a whole day on that day. So were you were you together in person with your
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I work nearly almost all the time remotely. Despite being remote, we're
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pretty much in meetings, I would say more than half the day.
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Yeah. And so and so then you share, you know, you see, it's been really tough. I
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have, you know, a migraine.
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Yeah, yeah. And I was like, Okay, that does sound interesting. Like, honestly,
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tried like, so many different things from that neurologist. I had also seen plenty
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of doctors had scans had blood work, I get massages, I get acupuncture, I went to a
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chiropractor, all those things like feel great. And they add value to my
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experience, but like, they weren't solving my underlying migraine issue.
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Yeah. And then we met and I have to see a lot of people tell me I recommend your
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services. And I'm like, Oh, gosh, I have like two feelings about it. On the one
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hand, I feel overjoyed. And on the other, I feel like this huge level of empathy
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for someone who's yet again recommended something else. Because I don't know how
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it was for you. Sometimes people complain over the years, they get so bombarded
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with recommendation, but also advertising, like they're targeted so much on
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Facebook, on Instagram, but here was really different. And you did reach out,
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which made me very happy. And so we met. And so you described all of your
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migraines. And I thought I had you all mapped out. But not. So do you want to
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share a bit like how we meet and then how we start?
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Yeah. So we started in October of last year, 2023. I feel like we needed like at
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least three months of working through things. And then we started to see
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results. It took like you asking like a lot of very specific, curious questions
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about my routine, and my day and where my pain was for us to unravel a really
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interesting hunch that you had about the fact that my migraines were on the left
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side, you went as far as to ask like, Oh, do you sleep on the left side of the
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like, do you sleep on the side that's towards the windows, the window to the
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left of your bed? There's like, Oh, yes, yes. But then you also ask like, what do
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you work with a window on your left side? Yes. So we made some changes in my
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routine. Yeah, such that like, you know, I make sure I'm warm when I'm sleeping,
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I change sides of the bed that I sleep on. And those little changes coupled with
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the nutrition changes certainly helped. And I think overall, it took about five
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months to see progress. But we went from having, in retrospect, nearly 17
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migraines, I think we found in my first month. Yeah. And now it's down to, I want
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to say around three, but honestly, some of those three are likely hangovers,
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because I love to have my wine. And I'm trying to work on maybe taking a little
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break from the wine to see if I can get further progress. So yeah, I wouldn't
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call those migraines necessarily, I would say maybe I have one to two
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migraines a month. Yeah, which is really exceptional. I remember, so we started,
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you described that left migraines, which for me is, I've had a lot of women with
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left migraines, and it's always the same thing. So then I'm assuming you're the
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same as everyone else. And so for the first three months, we work together, and
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I'm like, yeah, I don't understand, like, you know, what is this thing? I'm not
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capturing it. I've tried and tried and tried to remove her left side migraines
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the way we normally do it. But for her, it doesn't do it. So I thought, okay,
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let's talk again, there's something I'm missing. So there's a certain
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expectation we have of the migraines decreasing in intensity and frequency at
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a certain pace, and you were not meeting that pace. And so I thought, okay, let's
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talk because clearly I'm missing something. And then from there, I think
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the key is the diagnosis from there, it's much easier, and it phases down much
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faster. And then I was relieved. I'm like, oh, okay, now she makes sense. I
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understand. There's always a reason. There's always the reason the body is
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100% right in all of the cases. It's just for us to find, you know, where we
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miss it. And so how does that change aside of, you know, we talk about pure
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migraines, but how has your energy changed? How has your days changed?
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It's been really just such a relief to be able to go exercise, go to a yoga
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class. And I'm noticing that something that I would have been like just really
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fatigued doing, I like I'm much stronger now and have more capacity to continue
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to build my strength. Whereas before I like I didn't even have capacity to get
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through the exercise at hand, let alone become stronger. And yeah, I have more
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energy to, to be more active with my daughter to run around, be goofy, dance
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with her. And then in my day at work, I do feel more, less stressed. And
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obviously, like it helps that I'm not dealing with like the physical pain. So
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I'm able to focus and communicate more clearly and produce something stronger
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and better as my work output.
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Yeah, that's really special. That's it makes just everything in the day to day
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so much easier, so much smoother. You know, the reason why I was so keen to
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have you is, aside of you being an incredible human being, is you're
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charting a new way and a new future. And I hope you're the first one of many,
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many, where when there is a migraine, there is a conversation with your
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manager, your manager knows intellectually what a migraine is, the
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intensity of it can compare it to more to labor than a headache, and then can
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channel you through ways that are of service. And so, you know, I hope to
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you're pioneering for thousands and millions of women after you that yes,
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can have their days and their lives filled, filled with love, filled with
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joy, filled with intellectual challenges, you know, and still be
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Thank you. That's sweet to hear. Yeah, I think, I think I am really happy that
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I was open with Taslo and my teammates. And, you know, interestingly, I feel
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like I tried so many different things. And then ultimately, like the fact that
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I shared with those around me, that it led me to this outcome. So my takeaway
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internally is like, yeah, I had been trying a lot of solutions. But
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ultimately, I found progress by being open with what I was experiencing, and
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just being also open to non traditional paths for the solution. So I'm really
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thankful I shared externally, how I was feeling. So it landed me this relief in
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this progress I'm experiencing now.
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And what we're experiencing too, is that it brings you wellness in a much deeper
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sense. Sometimes I say to a woman, I've met you when you were 10, I've met you
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when you were 20, I've met you when you were 30, but also 50, 60, 70, 80. And the
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trajectory when numbing the migraines with more medication is the underlying
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imbalances get deeper. And as they get deeper, it's not just the migraines that
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start to stand in the way of work, it's a lot more. So usually women later, they
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have to stop working, but then they also spend time at the doctor, different kinds
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of doctors for different things, because unfortunately, being offered the
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possibility to listen to their body holistically. So that's really, really
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special too. Do you have any sort of words that you want to share?
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I would say, I just feel like the element of being open minded to trying something
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that's alternative and different, like on the surface, it seems confusing how
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eating something different might solve for your migraines, but just being open
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to not necessarily just this solution, but anything that's like, just trying
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something where you are changing up your routine and being attentive to how you
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feel and tracing the progress. And being open with those around you when you're
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not feeling at your best, so that you can lean on them for support or ideas,
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coverage. So yeah, being more open and leaning into your support.
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Mm hmm. Well, thank you so much, Jaya. I hope this is the start of a new dialogue
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at work for our future young generation coming into the workforce. Thank you so
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Of course, happy to help. Thank you.
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That's all for today. I hope this episode helped you notice some new things. If
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you'd like to keep exploring your patterns, you can find us on
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margarineheroes.com. Your body has a story to tell. Let's keep listening. I
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will be back with you soon.
