[00:00]
Hello and welcome, I'm your host Melissa Woodward, I'm a Remedial Massage Therapist and Women's
[00:14]
Health Coach. I have a size inclusive, anti-diet and body positive approach that aims to have
[00:20]
you feeling strong, capable and empowered to live in your body as it is now. And I'm
[00:25]
here with my co-host Erin Bailey. Hi, I'm Erin Bailey, I am a Women's Health Focused
[00:30]
Naturopath and Matricence Coach, helping women step into and through the different phases
[00:35]
and stages of motherhood with confidence, ease and grace. And together we are the Empowered
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Women's Health Podcast. The Empowered Women's Health Podcast, where we believe that knowledge
[00:46]
is power. Our show is all about giving women the tools they need to take control of their
[00:51]
health and wellbeing. We believe that too often women are left out of the conversation
[00:55]
when it comes to their own health. That's why we're here to provide a platform for honest,
[01:00]
real life conversations about the challenges and triumphs of being a woman. Please note
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the content provided in this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended
[01:12]
as a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the advice of your
[01:18]
physician or other qualified health care professional with any questions you may have
[01:23]
regarding your medical condition or treatment. Remember, your health is unique and what works
[01:29]
for one person may not work for another. Please consult your health care provider before making
[01:34]
any changes to your health care regime.
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Hello and welcome back to the Empowered Women's Health Podcast. I'm here today with my co-host
[01:50]
Erin Bailey. And we have our very first international guest, Diane DeCalm, and she's from New Zealand,
[01:59]
currently residing in New Zealand anyway. So we have our two hour time difference that
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we've successfully calculated to get online today. So I will read a bit about Diane. So
[02:11]
she's the founder and CEO of Nectar Health, a company that adds years to the lives of
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those suffering from migraine disease. She's also the host of a podcast called Migraine Heroes.
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Diane has an MBA from Harvard Business School. She's a Fulbright Scholar and an Edmund Hillary
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Fellow. She has a Master's in Science, Engineering, Technology and Mathematics from Europe and studied
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traditional Chinese medicine in China. She is now with the Academy of Healing Nutrition and she
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speaks seven languages. So welcome, Diane. Thank you so much for having me, Melissa. Thank you so
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much for having me, Erin. No worries. We are grateful that you reached out to share because
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Erin and I are both sufferers of migraines. So we really wanted to be able to empower women with
[03:02]
more information around migraines to, I guess, explore that it is more than just a headache,
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more than just a small inconvenience and the impacts that it has on our lives. So
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today we're going to go through our experiences with migraines because both Erin and I suffer as
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well. And we're going to do a bit of, I guess, some practical work here in that you're going
[03:24]
to be going through my health issues after a questionnaire that I filled out. So first,
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I guess we wanted to start with why are migraines a women's health issue?
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Yes, so indeed, migraines are a women's health issue. You know, it's an issue that is genetic
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and it's 5% of boys and girls that have migraines. And you'd think until then it's fair,
[03:50]
right? If it's genetic, then it should be half, half. And it's true for boys and girls. But as
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soon as women hit puberty, the incidence triples to quadruples for women, leaving 18%, so one in
[04:03]
five women with migraines. And those statistics are going to again change in a bit of a funny way
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during perimenopause and menopause. For some women they're going to increase, for some women
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decrease, for others change. And so women have overall three to four times more likelihood to
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have migraines than men. Now, why is that? In Western science, it's still quite unknown.
[04:31]
You would think that hormonal migraines would account for the 12% difference. But in practice,
[04:37]
when scientific people, scientists like went to analyse that, pure hormonal migraines were
[04:43]
not accounting for the difference. As we speak around year or two situations, we will understand
[04:51]
that. But essentially, it relates mainly to the reproductive system. There's hormones in there,
[04:58]
but I'll just give you another hint. For example, a woman in her fertility years is going to lose
[05:03]
23 to 28 litres of menstruation, right? That's if you take the average woman, not the one
[05:10]
bleeding heavily. And that's a lot of matter. If you take a man next to her, there's the nothingness
[05:16]
happening. She's going to lose all of that material. We're only 4 to 5 litres of blood,
[05:22]
so that's a massive loss. And she's going to need to remake all of that substance that she's
[05:29]
constantly losing. And if that doesn't happen, that, for example, can be a root cause of migraines.
[05:35]
But also in her system of hormones. So whereas the man is going to wake up and every single day
[05:40]
is going to have a daily cycle, wake up and with his one sex hormone, go through the same pattern
[05:45]
with consistency, the woman is going to go through cycles that can last anywhere between 28 or 35
[05:51]
days ideally. But it can be much longer if she's pregnant. It's at least nine months.
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If she has amenorrhea, it can be a much, much longer cycle. But also if she's going through
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perimenopause, it can be much shorter and she might bleed for a really long time.
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And in those cycles, all of these hormones and all of these jobs that need to be done
[06:15]
differ day to day. And think about migraines more as a firearm. So me and my friend are both born
[06:24]
with a firearm on our home. But because we have more sources of smoke and fire in our home,
[06:30]
because our home is more complicated, our firearm goes on faster.
[06:36]
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So there's, I guess we've said it before, we've touched on this in previous
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podcasts, is women's health is so complicated because we do go through so much and there's
[06:46]
so many factors to consider. So complicated. Absolutely. And it is very true. And you say
[06:53]
that a lot and it cannot be more true than that. And migraine is a complete reflection.
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You know, one that, you know what, even if you're like hardcore,
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hardcore traditional, you know, doctor and you hardcore don't believe that men and women are
[07:12]
that different, then explain just that one stat, right? Because that one stat comes from
[07:17]
the, from Western science. And that one stat is not currently explained. It's for mysterious
[07:24]
reasons that we have not yet invested as much time and energy, maybe, as we can, and I'm sure as we
[07:31]
will. The mystery of women, right? It seems to be a theme in modern medicine. Yes. And I really like
[07:42]
that reframe really, I suppose, of using a migraine as that fire alarm. It's a warning that
[07:51]
there's things out of balance or there's things that need tending to and caring to because sometimes
[07:55]
when you experience chronic conditions and recurrent and frequent things like migraines,
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and everyone's obviously going to be a little bit different into how severe or how frequent they are,
[08:09]
but it can feel like you've got no control over it, that there's nothing you can do.
[08:15]
They're just something that happened and you're a victim to your migraine. And definitely when
[08:21]
you're in it, you have to ride it out, right? There's things to accept that way. But in terms
[08:26]
of overall management and treatment and care around migraines, there are things that we can do.
[08:36]
Yeah. And yes, and maybe that will not immediately resonate with the audience, but I would love you
[08:43]
to hear me out in many circumstances in order to correct other problems in the body. And for
[08:50]
example, fertility, you can use your migraines as a fire alarm to read what is going on in the body
[08:57]
and attend to it. Just I think yesterday or the day before I was online with a woman in Europe,
[09:03]
she was coming to see me for her migraines and she had these massive fertility issues and she
[09:08]
was in IVF treatment. And I'm like, oh, you know, can you postpone it? Let's just fix a few things
[09:15]
and you'll see what happens. And let's leverage your migraines to understand what systems in your
[09:21]
body have sort of fertility challenges. Yeah. And I think we're all going to understand that a lot
[09:28]
more as as we talk in very realistic terms. Yeah. All right. So, Erin, do you want to share
[09:36]
a little bit about your experience with migraines? Yeah, well, actually, my first experience of
[09:42]
migraines is not my own, but my mum's. So we were very well versed as kids on what to do during a
[09:51]
migraine. My mum would go into a dark room for about three days. She had a little bell that
[09:57]
she would ring when she needed things. And for her, that was completely debilitating. I was,
[10:04]
you know, vomiting and all of the things happening with it. And so I was always, I suppose, really
[10:12]
well aware of what a migraine was, at least in terms of the effect that it had on your function
[10:17]
as a person. And then I experienced my first migraine when I went on the oral contraceptive
[10:24]
pill when I was about 18. And it actually wasn't until I was overseas, because for me, I get the
[10:32]
aura and I completely lose my vision for about half an hour or so. Well, at least that's what
[10:38]
it is now. Back then, I didn't have any treatment options in place. And so that vision loss,
[10:45]
vomiting, all of that sort of stuff would happen, would go on for hours. And I was overseas,
[10:53]
living overseas. And I remember being at work one day, and it was probably the second or third
[10:58]
migraine I'd ever had. And I was like, oh, I think my vision's going a little bit funny. I need to
[11:04]
get back to my room. And thankfully, I was living and working in the same place. And I couldn't,
[11:08]
and I was probably maybe a 50-metre walk back to my accommodation. And I had zero vision by the time
[11:18]
I got to my room. And I was walking. It was like I was drunk almost, like walking in a zigzag.
[11:23]
And it wasn't until I went to a GP who said, hmm, you started the pill this time, and then you
[11:32]
started getting migraines this time. I think it could be linked to the hormones being absorbed
[11:39]
through the pill. Do you want to try going off it and then seeing how you go? And of course,
[11:47]
I was 18, and I'd gone on for skin issues and stuff, and being self-conscious about
[11:52]
that sort of thing. I was like, oh, all right, fine. And they resolved really quickly.
[11:58]
I went to that GP, if I may. Great. Well done. This is what we expect. This is a really good,
[12:07]
yeah, a huge word of gratitude. Well, I think it also, even though with
[12:11]
all that experience and knowledge of what it was like to have a migraine and the impact and function
[12:16]
of being around my mum for the entire time of growing up,
[12:21]
I had no concept and no idea that your hormones could impact on your head. I think that just goes
[12:29]
to show how little information and education that there is in our system in terms of just
[12:37]
the impact that hormones can have. And the migraines reappeared for me during pregnancy,
[12:46]
both my pregnancies and postpartum, and always with the same sort of pattern, the aura followed
[12:52]
by vasoconstriction headaches. So, yeah, and then they went away for a while and now they're back.
[13:04]
Hormones from about 35 started to change for me. I've just turned 40 and I've gone through periods,
[13:10]
and there's certainly things for me that it's kind of like that Swiss cheese model, right?
[13:16]
Of like risk minimisation when we talk about, you know, OH and S and stuff, you know, like you've
[13:21]
got one piece of Swiss cheese and the whole on its own is OK. Add another one and another one
[13:24]
and another one and then you've got this perfect line of lots of holes in your cheese. And that
[13:31]
is it for me. So when I add in lots of stress, lack of sleep, dehydration, lots of sugar and
[13:37]
lots of caffeine and then a hormonal wobbly bit, I'm done for. So I've had periods this year where
[13:46]
I have had them every couple of weeks and then sometimes I'll go, I was just saying to a friend
[13:50]
this morning, I'm like, I haven't had one for a few months and I'm feeling pretty good, but I don't
[13:54]
want to jinx myself. So there's that anticipation or that anxiety of like, there's no warning often
[14:01]
of just when they're going to strike. And I've had times where I've had to literally,
[14:07]
I remember getting one, my dad lives about four hours away and I got one about an hour into the
[14:13]
drive home one time and I literally just had to pull over on the side of the road and I took my
[14:19]
medication straight away, popped my aspirin in a water bottle and had to wait out the 30 to 35
[14:26]
minutes of no vision and then just manage the drive the rest of the way home with the pain.
[14:32]
But at least I could see that's always handy. Good skill for driving. Yeah, so that's sort of
[14:39]
how it happens, what they look like for me. Very impactful. I've gotten, I think that the
[14:47]
length of time that I experienced them has definitely reduced. Usually the frequency of
[14:55]
them has reduced as well. Like I can go months and months without getting one, usually. But
[15:03]
yeah, it used to knock me for a few days, you know, I'd have that really groggy, almost hungover
[15:08]
feeling for several days afterwards. So those sorts of things have reduced, but
[15:14]
only because I'm really conscious and I do, you know, quite proactive in trying to reduce the
[15:18]
things that I know contribute to them for me. Yeah, very good. Thank you so much for sharing
[15:24]
that. Really good and really well managed and probably also doing that entire podcast. Like
[15:29]
you have so much, you're a library of knowledge, right, on so many dimensions, keeping your entire
[15:36]
system healthy and happy. And it's having a real incidence on your brain. Yeah. Well,
[15:45]
trying anyway, right? I mean, life happens sometimes, but of course. Yeah, of course.
[15:51]
And this is where it's interesting to flip it and seeing maybe as a tool, you know, a tool for
[15:58]
longevity, a tool for health, not acting against us, but, you know, trying to send a message. And
[16:05]
if you're able to decode it and peel it like the way you've described, you know, have a good
[16:12]
quality of life for longer. Absolutely. Yeah. What about you, Mel? What do yours look like?
[16:19]
Well, as I was sitting here listening to you, I was like, oh my God, I've never told my GP
[16:26]
about migraines. Maybe in the very first instance, back when I was about 20 and I just started as a
[16:32]
massage therapist, I was working my guts out, but I was also working with really poor, like a table
[16:40]
that was way too high for me. I was trying to like kill people with pressure. So a lot of it was
[16:46]
tension around my neck. And so my first, so I get the auras as well, but I was driving to work and
[16:54]
all of a sudden I got the tunnel vision and I was like, why can't I see like what is happening?
[16:59]
And luckily I was working with a physio inside a medical centre. So I saw a GP and he's like,
[17:05]
you need a massage because everything was just so restricted around the muscles,
[17:10]
sorry, around the blood vessels going up to my head is how he explained it to me.
[17:15]
But then over the years I was always sort of followed that and was like, ah, it's just,
[17:20]
you know, I've worked too hard again. It's just my tight muscles. And even with like having kids,
[17:28]
I got them when it was like breastfeeding and that hunched over, that weight pulling on the
[17:33]
back of my neck, I always sort of, I got migraines come up and I could feel it coming like the spots
[17:39]
or the, you know, the auras as they call it. I'd see that and I'd be like, oh, why can't I see?
[17:46]
And that's when I started to take like a Neurofen or Panadol or something just right there and then,
[17:53]
because otherwise the pain kind of creep up the back of my head and then it would be like a
[17:58]
full-blown like pain in the head. So it was really interesting to see that pattern of the
[18:05]
pain sort of creeping in if I got it at the right time. And yeah, they're so tiring, like the fatigue
[18:13]
you get with it. It's not just, oh, I needed this, you know, I'm a little bit tired. Like
[18:17]
it's full-blown fatigue I get. So like I actually had one last Sunday, so Sunday week ago,
[18:24]
we were decorating the house, you know, with the kids and I've been doing a lot of hours of massage
[18:30]
and I all of a sudden couldn't see. And I was like, oh, oh, went and got the medication and
[18:39]
then I was like, no, I'm going to bed. And so I went and laid down for a bit because I just felt
[18:44]
I needed to be vertical for a while. I don't really feel like I get light sensitivity,
[18:51]
but the noises sort of make my head sound a bit worse. And I don't normally get the nausea,
[18:59]
but I have had a period where I went through and I sort of managed to nail it down to ovulation
[19:06]
was where I got really severe pain and I got to the point of vomiting and I was bedridden. And so
[19:12]
my poor little guy lived on shapes because that's how, like shapes biscuits, because that's what he
[19:17]
could reach a box of when I was like, I can't do this. And we were home alone. So, yeah, I never
[19:25]
really sought help for them because I just thought, oh, well, it's my own doing. I've
[19:30]
overworked my body again. I better pull it back or, yeah, maybe they would have formed a whole
[19:37]
picture of something if anyone had cared to ask. But you've asked me a lot of questions in my
[19:44]
questionnaire, so. Yeah, yeah, I have. So I sent you a questionnaire. I think it has around 97
[19:51]
questions. I remember when I started this, there was a man who said, oh, you know, you have 30
[19:56]
questions back then. It was like after one year you have 30 questions. No one answers 30 questions.
[20:01]
I have 97 questions and all of the women, you know, they power through it because they're like,
[20:06]
you know, I really I really need a solution. And I really want to speak on behalf of maybe let's
[20:13]
imagine there was a third woman in this group, one who did not have a podcast. And the reason
[20:20]
why she did not is because she was bedridden, you know, most of the month and she's in pain.
[20:27]
Things escalated. It was not her fault. She tried to find, but maybe things arrived very suddenly.
[20:33]
Maybe things arrived and changed, you know, abruptly. And she really tried and she's
[20:38]
bedridden and it's impacting her relationships. It's impacting her work. It's impacting her
[20:44]
self-confidence. Many times she's gone to the doctor and the doctor says that she's depressed,
[20:49]
but she's very happy as a person. It's just that the situation in which, you know, you know,
[20:53]
she is now makes her depressed. So she starts to really self-doubt. She tries to fake that she's
[20:59]
not in pain because it's invisible. And then people, you know, she doesn't have to justify
[21:05]
herself that much and not feel such a pain for everyone else. But inside she massively suffers.
[21:12]
She feels guilty about not taking care more of the chores at home and guilty of not taking care of
[21:16]
her children. And so I want to also, you know, keep that additional, you know, woman in mind
[21:23]
who are probably listening to us and feeling, oh, you know, I, you know, is it me? Or is it,
[21:28]
am I, you know, on a spectrum? Am I, you know, much, much in a deeper situation and
[21:34]
listening to my body? I tried, but for me, it's not working. I just want to note them too.
[21:40]
Yeah. And that was certainly my mom. Your mom. Yeah. Yeah. And well, she,
[21:49]
at least for our early years of childhood, didn't work outside the home, but she also
[21:53]
couldn't care for us while she had, she was in the depths of that migraine. And like I said,
[21:58]
last days for her. And so, you know, my dad owned his own business, but wasn't a remote working from
[22:07]
home type job. He was a builder. So he wasn't at work, things weren't getting built. And
[22:13]
so those times where he didn't need to come home because quite literally, and I have to say,
[22:19]
I was quite glad that my son was a good climber. Like he liked climbing on everything. And
[22:24]
one of those kids where I'm like, okay, I'm going to stop trying to just get you down off
[22:28]
things and teach you how to climb down safely because he just loved climbing. But when I would
[22:32]
have a migraine, I was very thankful that he was a good climber because he could reach things.
[22:38]
Off you go. But, you know, the impact that migraines even can have on relationships,
[22:43]
just because one person is completely potentially incapacitated, depending on the type of migraine
[22:48]
you have. But then impacts, whether it's work, whether it's child care. It impacts on other
[22:57]
people as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's massive. And so let's keep the the, you know, your mom in
[23:04]
the in the conversation, such as if she was also there in the podcast. And so and so the idea is
[23:11]
like, you know, with all of these questions I asked you, Melissa, is to really say, okay, when
[23:16]
we look at all of your all of your body, what else is your body saying or what else is your
[23:23]
body complaining about? For some women, migraines can be so loud and so dominant
[23:30]
that they might not realize as well. Oh, I also have candida. I also have IBS.
[23:35]
I also have digestive issues. I also have a really runny bowel movement. I think I have a leaky gut.
[23:40]
I also have endometriosis. I also have, you know, I feel constantly bloated. I also have,
[23:47]
you know, no menstruation for a long time. I also have fertility issues. And so these issues are
[23:53]
really going hand in hand. So in Western science, we have demonstrated that migraines were genetic.
[23:58]
So there's one to 40 genes that can be found. We've also demonstrated that the gut brain access,
[24:03]
right, you know, how my gut connects to my brain, my brain to my gut. We've demonstrated also the
[24:08]
vagus nerve. And the vagus nerve, as you imagine, is this massive tree inside your body that plants
[24:14]
its roots around your heart, around your stomach, around your liver, around your gut, around your
[24:20]
uterus. And it's going to take all of these nervous ramifications all together that are going to
[24:27]
gather in a trunk, which is your neck. Back to your point, Melissa, you know, when I take all
[24:32]
of that tension and massage people, it goes in my neck and I start to have a migraine and then
[24:36]
plugs in your brain like a Tesla. And so from a Western science perspective, we've completely lost
[24:42]
the signal where all of these ramifications of nerve go into the brain. And so what we do
[24:47]
instead is we try to have people, we do brain imaging and we try to have people do brain
[24:54]
imaging when they ovulate or when they have their menstruation, when they do maths, when they're
[24:58]
stressed. And we try to see, OK, what part of the brain is functioning. But, you know, how can we
[25:05]
relate to the to those wires inside the gut is still, you know, something that we that we start
[25:12]
to scratch the surface on and try to investigate and learn from. And so it's really using that
[25:17]
together with all of the symptoms. So whenever I have an endometriosis or a candida or, you know,
[25:22]
you were talking in your podcast recently about the biome of the vagina. I said that word,
[25:29]
the biome of the vagina. And I'm like, yeah. And if you have a bad biome in your vagina,
[25:33]
you can have recurring UTI, which is enough to get you a migraine as well. Right. You know,
[25:39]
depending on your genetic predisposition and how strong it is. But if your firearm has a lot of
[25:44]
sensors, it's going to pick up that sensor of the UTI and, you know, wrong vaginal discharge with
[25:53]
a pH that is too alkaline and not acid enough and and start a migraine. And so and so in your case,
[26:02]
I'd love to walk you through sort of how does your body deal with these very small imbalance?
[26:07]
And we're going to start by being tense in the shoulders, you know, having that tension from
[26:13]
your work and, you know, receiving everything in your neck. When you do that at the back behind
[26:21]
your head, in traditional transplants, you connect the brain to the kidney system.
[26:27]
Now, I'm not talking about the kidney organ, I'm really talking about the system. In that system,
[26:32]
you have the kidney, the bladder, the adrenals behind the head, the resilience to stress,
[26:37]
etc. And so when that system is going to be too solicited, a number of symptoms are going to
[26:44]
occur that indicates that that system is slightly out of balance. Right. So, for example, being
[26:51]
sensitive to noise when having a migraine is going to pertain to that system. Experiencing
[26:56]
abdominal pain mid-cycle sometimes when you ovulate. Right. That's really the time of the
[27:01]
kidney systems, the kidney system in charge of ovulation. Feeling exhausted, completely smashed,
[27:07]
tired, having migraines on the sinuses, which is probably the same system, having tinnitus
[27:13]
or a bit of, you know, a little bit of facial hair. All of that pertains to a system. So it's
[27:19]
not looking at these problems of can I fix my tinnitus? Can I fix my sinuses? Can I fix my
[27:25]
ovulation? Just looking at, OK, the whole system seems to be slightly out of balance and needs a
[27:31]
bit of love and needs a bit of nourishment. Now, when that system isn't doing well,
[27:37]
then you can have another system not doing well and it's going to be the liver system.
[27:41]
And the liver system works like hand in hand with the kidney system. The liver system is in charge
[27:46]
of all of your female hormones, your tendons, but also is massively connected to your brain
[27:52]
in multiple locations, is in charge of your mood hormones, your tendons, your breasts.
[27:57]
And so once one of those systems doesn't do really well, so here my kidney system,
[28:02]
my liver system might come to the rescue. I'm going to start to have a domino effect.
[28:06]
And so my liver system, which is technically massaged by my diaphragm, pumping it just on
[28:13]
top of it when I breathe and I'm going to start to shallow breathe, that system isn't massaged as
[28:20]
much. And I'm going to start to have another set of symptoms like numbness in the arms, like
[28:26]
bloating, sore breasts, you know, tending to bend the back, you know, putting on a bit of weight,
[28:32]
having the belly a little bit enlarged. Is that a big deal? No, it's not a big deal. No,
[28:36]
it's not a problem. But the problem is that the liver system is in charge of detox. So it means
[28:41]
that when it has less energy, it's going to start to prioritize every day of the month what it does
[28:46]
and doesn't do. And so at some point, I'm going to start to accumulate toxins. Now, if that gives
[28:52]
me a migraine, I'm going to do what? I'm going to take a medication. If I take a medication,
[28:57]
I'm adding toxins. So this is where we have what is called the migraine rebound or medication
[29:04]
overuse headache, where in traditional translation, when you say, OK, if you give more inflammation,
[29:11]
more toxicity in the liver, you can have more migraines. And from there, what is fascinating
[29:17]
is that your liver, in traditional translation, is in charge of irrigating your eyes.
[29:22]
So it's in charge of producing the very fine liquids that will help your eyes see properly,
[29:27]
deal with light. And once those are not produced in enough quantity, because that's the to-do list,
[29:35]
you know, the body can get to it, then you're going to have a whole new set of symptoms.
[29:40]
Really, really fascinating, which are, for example, having itchy eyes, having migraines
[29:45]
with aura, having dry eyes, feeling dizzy. And so, yeah, it's all of that branch, which
[29:53]
then starts to be really scary and actually very dangerous, because if I'm driving,
[29:59]
you know, I'm much more susceptible of an accident, much more. If I'm also walking and
[30:05]
there's a scooter coming at me, my time response to that scooter is going to be slightly slower.
[30:10]
And so I slightly have more risk of being hit by something. And so then starts a cascade of dominoes
[30:18]
of the systems not being well together. And this is what the pain is complaining about.
[30:24]
If I take an analogy, I take, you know, you see my daughter jammed her finger in the door,
[30:31]
and I went to the doctor and I said, oh, she's crying really loud and makes so much noise in
[30:36]
the house. And the doctor says, oh, let me give you some earplugs. They work quite nicely. She
[30:39]
goes back home and she's like, oh, yeah, this noise. Well, that was painful. And then the
[30:44]
daughter starts to shout louder and says, I'm really in pain, mom. Can you please help me? And
[30:48]
she starts to shout. And the mom goes back to the doctor and says, now she's shouting.
[30:52]
Oh, try on this Bose headset with nose counseling. Should be really good. She goes back home and the
[30:57]
door starts to bang on the door. And so it's really about, you know, trying to say, OK,
[31:05]
am I born with migraines? I'm born with genetics, but am I born in pain? No. So there is pain. There
[31:12]
must be a root cause to my pain. And what is my root cause? And when you get to my experiences,
[31:18]
when you get to the root cause of the pain, the bonuses, the other symptoms go. So you can have
[31:25]
a very foggy brain, for example, and acne. And when the foggy brain goes, the acne goes because
[31:31]
they're the same sort of problems of bio inside the body, inside the gut. And so that's what keeps
[31:38]
me busy and happy, you know, like to transform women from within, for them to live the life
[31:46]
they deserve to live and not be controlled day to day by their migraines, be the mothers they
[31:51]
want to be, the workers, the spouse, you know, you know, to enable their dreams and not be locked
[31:58]
and controlled. I think the root cause is probably the words that we would love to hear more from
[32:08]
our doctors is finding that instead of masking it or throwing, you know, shit medication on the top.
[32:14]
Like, yeah, I had a bit of a rant with my ladies this morning about this. Like I go in asking a
[32:22]
question about what is causing this and they go, well, what medication can I give you? And there's
[32:29]
no further investigation. It's like, how can we suppress all these, you know, suppress all
[32:37]
these symptoms as opposed to actually finding what is it that's bringing those symptoms out?
[32:42]
Completely, completely. I mean, it's so true. And once you find your root cause, you know,
[32:48]
because everything, all of the problems go at the same time. When you solve for something, if not
[32:54]
another three things are solved, it means, you know, you were just looking at the symptom. Normally,
[33:00]
many other things should go. This is what I love about holistic health care, because it really is
[33:06]
looking at the drivers. What mechanisms, what organs, what systems are actually at play for this
[33:12]
thing? Like you're saying, like, is the problem the daughter crying? Or like if you, if that,
[33:19]
in that particular scenario, if some more questions have been asked, well, if we deal with the pain in
[33:23]
the finger that just got jammed in the door, then the crying would stop. It's not about the ears.
[33:28]
It's not even about the crying. It's about what's causing that.
[33:33]
Completely. And look, the problem initially was small. But if you let that drag for one year,
[33:39]
two years, five years, 10 years, then the problem becomes major. Yeah.
[33:46]
Yeah. And the relationship between that mom and that daughter is a relationship between you and
[33:51]
your body. There's a third party telling you what to what, you know, to ignore.
[33:57]
Exactly. Yeah. And it's not to say that there aren't circumstances or times where,
[34:03]
like if I had sat on the side of the road with that aura without any medication,
[34:09]
I would have been sitting there for a really long time, not half an hour.
[34:13]
So there are times and places where we need that. But I think it's really important,
[34:17]
particularly if it's something that's ongoing for you and impactful on your life, to actually
[34:21]
sit down with someone who can look at that whole picture of what's going on for you,
[34:27]
rather than just the crying kid or the pain in your head. Yeah.
[34:33]
Absolutely. And look, doing these exams, like lots of women are going to say, I went to the
[34:37]
neurologist, I did an MRI, I did a blood test, I did a biome test. Everything is coming back
[34:42]
normal. It is important to do these tests. You know, it is important. But if everything comes
[34:47]
back normal, well, it doesn't mean that everything is normal. Like, you know, there are imbalances.
[34:51]
There's a reason why. It's not just in your head. I think oftentimes women are led to believe, hey,
[34:56]
it's in your head, just accept, medicate, move on. Life will be easier if you were just accepting
[35:02]
that this is your reality. I think it's really hard for women to hear that. Like, really,
[35:09]
am I really depressed from deep within? And do I just have to accept because, what, I'm a woman?
[35:16]
Like, that's also what women are told. Why do you have migraines? Because you're a woman.
[35:21]
Yeah, exactly. And, you know, I can't change that. Yeah. Well, that's it. And it's, you know,
[35:33]
goes across lots of chronic pain conditions, right? Whether it's migraines, whether it's
[35:41]
chronic musculoskeletal or joint pain, whether it's endometriosis, you know, other inflammatory
[35:46]
sort of conditions, the time it takes for diagnosis can often be really, really long because,
[35:53]
exactly as you're saying, Diane, which, yeah, that's just part and parcel of being a woman.
[36:01]
Not always, but often, you know. And it's no wonder that then, you know, the fastest
[36:09]
rising script stats in Australia, and I expect New Zealand is really similar,
[36:13]
is that of antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications. And, again, it's that finger in
[36:19]
the door type situation, or the crying child, like, is it about the earplugs, or can we actually ask
[36:24]
some more questions and find out what's driving that condition? Yeah. Yeah. And so, I tell women
[36:30]
to also just, you know, make silence in their head and really trust themselves. Women usually
[36:38]
really know themselves. But it can be really hard because, and I did a podcast with Nicole
[36:44]
Jardim on the period party on this topic of intuition, because let's imagine I'm a woman,
[36:49]
my GP tells me, oh, track your migraines, and then come back to me, you know. And she tracks,
[36:55]
and she says, oh, they're hormonal, I think, because each time it's on my cycles, or just
[37:00]
before menstruation and ovulation. And she looks at the data together with the doctor, and on paper,
[37:06]
it's not very true. Like, if you really look at on paper, it's like, well, yeah, sometimes,
[37:12]
but not always. And how the body is going to constantly prioritize its to-do list, and able
[37:18]
to do, get things, some of them done certain months, and sometimes not able to get them done,
[37:23]
because the to-do list is longer. It's going to really put women off to say, okay, after all,
[37:30]
I don't know anything, and no, it is not related to that, but I really thought it was this, or I
[37:35]
thought it was the pin, then I stopped it, or I thought it was my marina, and I stopped it,
[37:39]
but I still have my migraines. So really, in spite of all of that, you're still right. And I really
[37:45]
want women to hear that, in spite of everything that you're told, your intuition is, most of the
[37:51]
time, not always still right. And that's what I was sort of trying to say right at the beginning
[37:56]
with my Swiss cheese analogy, is that there can be triggers, there can be tipping points,
[38:04]
but often, or at least in my experience, it's actually compounding factors. It's not just one,
[38:10]
I couldn't, it wasn't just one day of not drinking enough water, it was the dehydration coupled with,
[38:16]
well, I had a few glasses of wine yesterday, plus I, and at this point in my cycle, plus I've got
[38:22]
a lot going on with work, or there's family stress going on, or you know, like, there's one thing,
[38:28]
there's just too many things, and then that was the tipping point, rather than any of those one
[38:33]
individual things as well. Yeah, and it's completely true. And if I may add, let's take a
[38:41]
situation of even, for example, your mom, and she discovers this, and she's told, do some yoga,
[38:47]
exercise, drink more, hydrate yourself more, eat healthy, you know, don't be stressed about this or
[38:53]
that, and you tell her to do all of these things, it is possible she feels she's doing everything
[38:59]
right, and she's still in pain, because the domino went so far, and the imbalances are so
[39:05]
installed that they can't, they can't get back on track, and the body really needs, you know,
[39:14]
help to get to that equilibrium, and once the body is in equilibrium, it's much easier. But do you
[39:20]
see what I mean? Like, I often discuss with women, they say, I live like a saint, I don't drink,
[39:26]
I don't eat chocolate, I exercise, I meditate, I do yoga. And my husband, he does everything the
[39:33]
opposite, he's just completely healthy. And I'm in, I'm bedridden, you know, like still three or
[39:38]
four days a month with all of the sacrifices I make. How does that work? Sometimes there are
[39:45]
still imbalances that are deep rooted and needs to be adjusted, but once they are, the body knows
[39:51]
how to do the rest. And so if you can try to catch, if you can be like, you know, like Erin,
[39:58]
and I find Melissa, and do your research, and listen to so many of the podcasts, and try to
[40:03]
really keep your health as much as possible in check, then you'll see your migraines decrease.
[40:08]
So consume, consume podcasts, and learn for yourself, see what works, you know, keep your
[40:14]
health in balance, and then, and then your brain, your brain will follow. So where do we go from
[40:20]
here? So what, what do women, how do we, I guess, find our root cause and be able to address the
[40:29]
issues that are found? It's a, it's a very good question. So, so I think the reason why doctors
[40:38]
really struggle to find those is because the way our system is, is done is we have the GDP, right?
[40:47]
And in order to increase GDP, you need to make more money, and it's a money economy. But if you
[40:53]
are in health care, well, the way you make more money, and you answer to investors is you have
[41:00]
people consume more health care. So it's quite a vicious circle, the way, the way things are
[41:06]
developed, and it's no one's fault. No one, you know, woke up and say, let's do a devious thing,
[41:11]
you know, and let's not be kind and, and make everyone super confused. No one did that. But we
[41:16]
did that to ourselves. In traditional Chinese medicine, you would pay your doctor as long as
[41:20]
you were healthy. So the moment you'd get sick, you'd stop paying them. Very different logic. So
[41:25]
guess, you know, who got to the root causes and who got to explain what root causes are? Well,
[41:30]
you know, and have a really fertile, you know, population and large population. And so,
[41:35]
and so it's really using some of these core principles. Does that answer your question,
[41:40]
though? I'm not sure it does. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's really like looking at things a lot more
[41:47]
holistically, a lot more holistically, and linking them together. Usually, when there's a system down,
[41:53]
it will come with multiple symptoms and understanding where those systems pertain.
[42:00]
I think that's from I didn't get a chance to fill out the questionnaire that Mel did. And
[42:07]
her feedback was like, I didn't even realize how complex the picture of migraines is. And I
[42:14]
suppose the precipitating factors or those triggering and contributing factors is going
[42:18]
to be a little bit different. And so but being able to have someone help you actually decipher
[42:25]
what your migraine picture is. Completely. And so and so if this is you, if you found you've done
[42:32]
all of the right things, et cetera, and you're still massively in pain, and have a website,
[42:36]
it's called MyNectarHealth.com. Nectar, like the flower. And you fill in the test. And from the
[42:46]
test, we meet and we discuss. I'm going to explain to you all of the domino effect of your migraines,
[42:51]
you know, just from the first onset of migraines to now. And usually women love that call because
[42:59]
they feel seen and understood. They understand their body. And for the first time, they're like,
[43:04]
oh, my God, now that makes sense. I understand how I got into that situation and why it's so
[43:09]
hard to get out of it. And then I put together an app and that app is going to help us find the
[43:15]
foods that will solve all of these root causes. And once the root causes get solved, then they
[43:20]
will report, wow, not only are my migraines decreasing intensity and frequency, but also
[43:25]
all of these other problems are softening. They're going away. My skin's better. And people will
[43:31]
comment, like children will comment on mom's energy. Husbands will comment on hair or on skin.
[43:41]
Friends will comment on weight, which sometimes can just be absence of bloating. And so the
[43:45]
belly just no longer bloated. And so it's wonderful. And I think it's women who have
[43:52]
migraines feel incredibly vulnerable. If you've had them for five, 10, 20, 30, 40 years, you've
[43:59]
tried everything and nothing worked. And I would really encourage you to listen to the podcast of
[44:04]
Migraine Heroes. And we go over with women, like over the incredible lives that women have led
[44:13]
and how they've come out of it. And so I'd really encourage you to feel reassured and feel
[44:21]
listening to several podcasts to feel, OK, I can, you know, I think, I think, you know,
[44:25]
Diane is different and I think she can potentially help me. And I have to say,
[44:31]
I'm sorry for everything that you go through. I really am.
[44:35]
Well, thank you very much, Diane, for sharing all that with us. And if you are listening and
[44:41]
interested in doing the questionnaire, 97 questions, it does sound like a lot. But once
[44:47]
you're sitting on your phone, just flicking through, it's not that hard.
[44:49]
Seven minutes. It's OK.
[44:51]
And my phone saved my responses when I clicked out to email and say,
[44:56]
but what about this, Diane? And then I came back and all my responses.
[45:00]
still there. So yeah, that's a great technology feature of your form because I am the worst
[45:07]
when it comes to getting to a point going, I don't know what to do. Yeah. So we'll put the
[45:13]
link in our show notes, but it is mynectarhealth.com. You can have a look around and fill out that
[45:23]
questionnaire and find out more about Diane and her work. So thank you again.
[45:28]
Yeah. And when you do the questionnaire, meet me. I think it's just, it's that conversation
[45:33]
is quite unifying and energizing. And I have to say, I feel always energized. You know,
[45:39]
it's on paper. It lasts 60 minutes. Usually women will go over, ask lots of questions. It's going
[45:43]
to last 90. And you know, I love every minute of it because it's a moment of self-discovery and
[45:48]
self-understanding. And it's the moment where you say, your daughter jammed her finger. This is the
[45:53]
date happened and this is how it happened. That this is why she's crying. Undo your earplugs.
[45:58]
You can listen and she's there, she's alive. Let's just take really good care of her and love
[46:04]
her very much. Awesome.
[46:08]
Yeah. And what resonated so much and why we wanted to talk to you, Diane, is really,
[46:14]
you know, the aim of our podcast is to educate and empower. And that's actually what your work
[46:18]
is doing. It's actually just providing women information that they can then use in helping
[46:24]
and managing their health, which is just so great. So thank you.
[46:26]
I really want to thank you on that because, you know, to be where the podcast was listening to
[46:30]
more episodes like, oh, I love that. Let's just continue where it goes and, you know,
[46:35]
have practical tips. And so you're doing absolutely remarkable work. So thank you both for being so
[46:42]
candid and so vulnerable at times like here as well, you know, when you share your own experiences.
[46:48]
And today is a testament to that. So a massive thank you for women. Thank you for standing for
[46:52]
us. Thank you. It's been a pleasure.
[47:06]
Thank you for listening to today's episode of the Empowered Women's Health Podcast.
[47:11]
If you would like to join the conversation, you can head to www.facebook.com slash groups
[47:19]
slash Empowered Women's Health and join our community and join the conversation around
[47:25]
today's podcast episode. If you would like to follow me, Melissa, on Instagram or Facebook,
[47:32]
look up at melissa.fearlesshealth. And Erin, you'll find on Instagram as Erin's Healing Hub
[47:40]
or on Facebook, Erin Bailey, holistic nutritionist and naturopath. Thanks.
