[00:00]
Are you ready to transform your menstrual health?
[00:03]
Good, because I want to introduce you to the Fix Your Period Collective,
[00:07]
a first-of-its-kind membership platform that I designed just for you.
[00:12]
You'll start by taking my new and improved Period Quiz,
[00:15]
which will translate your responses into a personalized period dashboard
[00:19]
that gives you a breakdown of what your symptoms really mean.
[00:23]
Yep, you heard that right.
[00:24]
You'll even get a customized period score and all the answers and solutions
[00:28]
you've ever wanted for your cycle and hormone problems.
[00:31]
Get started right now by going to fixyourperiod.com slash quiz.
[00:36]
Hi, I'm Nicole Jardim, a certified women's health coach,
[00:43]
also known as the Period Fixer,
[00:45]
and you are listening to another episode of my podcast, The Period Party,
[00:49]
which is what happens when you get the world's leading women's health experts
[00:53]
unscripted, uncensored, and on the air.
[00:56]
Think of it as girl talk gone menstrual.
[00:59]
On The Period Party, we talk candidly about all of those off-limits topics.
[01:04]
Periods, hormones, vaginas, fertility, miscarriage, postpartum, and so much more.
[01:10]
Join me and my guests each episode for fun, fresh, and truthful conversation,
[01:15]
and let us help you develop a deeper understanding of how your body works.
[01:22]
Hey, hey, podcast listeners.
[01:23]
On this episode, I am welcoming back Diane Ducarm, the founder and CEO of Nectar Health,
[01:29]
a company dedicated to adding years to the lives of those suffering from migraine disease.
[01:35]
Diane's journey is as impressive as it is diverse.
[01:38]
With an MBA from Harvard Business School,
[01:40]
a master's in science engineering technology and mathematics,
[01:43]
and studies in traditional Chinese medicine in China,
[01:46]
she brings a unique blend of expertise to the field of women's health.
[01:49]
Diane's passion for making a difference
[01:51]
and drive to understand the impact migraines have on individuals worldwide
[01:55]
led her to found Nectar Health.
[01:58]
This conversation is a deep dive into migraines and intuition.
[02:02]
Diane shares invaluable insights into why your intuition,
[02:05]
even when it seems to falter, is a reliable guide in the maze of migraine management.
[02:10]
She believes that your intuition is always correct
[02:13]
and that you know it, but you might not know why.
[02:16]
Others might tell you otherwise, but your intuition is right
[02:19]
because when your life is controlled by migraines,
[02:21]
it is important that you trust yourself and you have your own back
[02:24]
because oftentimes no one else will.
[02:26]
You can get help for your migraines at MyNectarHealth.com
[02:30]
and if you want to share this episode,
[02:32]
tag at MyNectarHealth and me, Nicole M. Jardim, on Instagram.
[02:36]
And of course, let us know what you thought about the episode
[02:39]
by leaving a review or rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
[02:43]
Thank you so, so much for being here as always
[02:45]
and I hope you enjoyed this episode.
[02:50]
Hi, Diane. Thank you so much for coming back on the show.
[02:54]
Thank you, Nicole. Thank you for having me.
[02:56]
It's a delight to be here.
[02:58]
I feel exactly the same way.
[03:00]
I am so looking forward to this second episode
[03:02]
and I have no doubt that you're going to bring all the wisdom
[03:05]
around migraines and women's health that you did the last time.
[03:08]
So thank you again.
[03:10]
Well, thank you so much.
[03:12]
And so let's talk about what you're going to talk about today
[03:16]
because I feel like this is inherent to migraines,
[03:18]
but also to women's health in general.
[03:21]
Can you get into a little bit about what you want to share with us?
[03:24]
So what I want to talk to you about today, Nicole,
[03:27]
is about intuition and how women will feel on migraines,
[03:31]
and it's true on other topics, really strong on their intuition.
[03:35]
And so they're going to feel the problem is coming a certain way.
[03:39]
Yet sometimes their intuition is going to fail them
[03:42]
and so something else is going to happen.
[03:44]
And so when they put the facts on paper, their intuition is wrong,
[03:49]
but they still feel strong about it.
[03:51]
And when we look after, the intuition was right.
[03:55]
And there's an explanation for why the numbers on paper
[03:58]
look slightly different.
[04:00]
And so I really want to talk about that in the context of migraines.
[04:05]
Because I know we were just talking before we started recording
[04:07]
and we were going into the fact that when it comes to our intuition,
[04:13]
it's almost like one of those things.
[04:16]
Obviously, it's inherent in all of us.
[04:18]
And yet for so many of us, we second-guess ourselves,
[04:21]
we doubt ourselves, we doubt the things that we're feeling,
[04:24]
the physical symptoms, the emotional symptoms,
[04:26]
because we've kind of been told that they're not a big deal
[04:29]
or they've been brushed off or dismissed.
[04:31]
And I imagine that is particularly true with migraines.
[04:36]
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
[04:38]
It's so true, and I have been dismissed in my life as well,
[04:41]
and we talk about that on these topics.
[04:43]
And in the case of migraines, yeah, a woman's going to have an intuition,
[04:46]
she's going to go to the doctor, talk about it,
[04:49]
just to be told you have migraines because you're a woman.
[04:52]
Or you have migraines and you should just accept it.
[04:55]
Or you have migraines, are you sure you're not depressed?
[04:58]
Well, no, I'm a very lively person.
[05:00]
It's just that the situation, you understand, doctor,
[05:02]
have you seen my data? It's terrible.
[05:04]
I'm in pain every single day.
[05:05]
Yeah, but so you're depressed, right?
[05:07]
No, no, I'm not depressed.
[05:09]
I swear this is really not who I am.
[05:11]
It's just that the situation is just absolutely unbearable.
[05:14]
Yeah, so I think still you're depressed.
[05:16]
You should take some depression medication.
[05:18]
And the woman is going to go back home and say,
[05:20]
am I depressed? Am I? Really? Am I?
[05:22]
I don't think I am. Am I?
[05:24]
But I'm sad every day.
[05:25]
Yeah, but that's because of the circumstances.
[05:27]
Does that make me depressed?
[05:28]
And so she's going to start to really second-guess herself,
[05:31]
and it's going to make the journey very lonely.
[05:35]
I mean, I feel like I've been there.
[05:37]
I've seen many, many doctors in my life,
[05:38]
and even actually one of my friends came to see you
[05:42]
after the last episode.
[05:44]
She's a very close friend,
[05:45]
and she's been completely blown away by all that she's learned.
[05:49]
And she's actually said something along these lines to me,
[05:52]
that there were things that she inherently knew
[05:55]
were potentially triggers for her migraines,
[05:57]
but she really wasn't sure.
[05:59]
And she's been through the system so many times now
[06:02]
and been to so many different practitioners
[06:04]
that she just kind of suppressed those feelings.
[06:07]
So it makes complete sense that that is what would happen.
[06:11]
And like I said, it happens across the board,
[06:13]
no matter what you're experiencing.
[06:14]
But with migraines, I can totally imagine.
[06:16]
And so we're talking about intuition,
[06:18]
and you mentioned that, like, you know,
[06:20]
you might feel like it's failing you when it's on paper.
[06:23]
Can you just talk a little bit more about some examples
[06:26]
of what that looks like?
[06:28]
So let's take three examples.
[06:30]
The first one is, for example, let's imagine a woman.
[06:33]
She has a migraine today.
[06:34]
This morning, she wakes up, she has a migraine.
[06:36]
And she's like, oh, of course, you know.
[06:38]
I drank wine yesterday.
[06:39]
I had two glasses.
[06:40]
I know it's too much.
[06:42]
But wait a second.
[06:43]
I thought wine was a trigger.
[06:44]
But, you know, I had wine the other day,
[06:47]
and I did not have a migraine.
[06:48]
So, you know, I wasn't sure.
[06:50]
And so is it a trigger or is it not?
[06:52]
It's not so clear.
[06:54]
So she's going to start to doubt,
[06:55]
because sometimes it is and sometimes it's not.
[06:59]
It is, but it's going to depend on when.
[07:01]
Let's take another example.
[07:03]
You have a woman who says, oh, I've had migraines
[07:06]
for the last five years.
[07:07]
Look, initially it was horrendous.
[07:09]
I wasn't so clear.
[07:10]
And then little by little, I started to track,
[07:12]
and I noticed it always happened before my menstruation.
[07:16]
Two to three days linked to my PMS.
[07:18]
I got it under control.
[07:19]
These days, I don't do anything.
[07:21]
No social commitment.
[07:22]
No work commitment.
[07:23]
So Nicole, this woman, is going to have her whole agenda
[07:27]
revolve around her migraines and her cycle.
[07:30]
And then she says, well, in the last year, you know,
[07:32]
it started to also occur mid-cycle.
[07:35]
So I'm thinking maybe around the time of my ablation,
[07:38]
but not so strong.
[07:41]
But then recently, I had this massive migraine,
[07:44]
and it was not my PMS, and it was not the time of ablation.
[07:48]
I swear it was something else.
[07:49]
And so I'm starting to wonder, is there any pattern,
[07:52]
or did I get that wrong all the time,
[07:54]
or is my pattern changing?
[07:56]
I'm super confused now, and I'm really scared,
[07:59]
because these are really, really strong episodes.
[08:01]
And so I really fear to go in that zone,
[08:03]
when especially I haven't planned it.
[08:05]
Or you take a third type of woman who says, okay,
[08:08]
when my migraine comes, I have this tingling in my arm,
[08:11]
and it starts to hurt.
[08:12]
I start to lose my vision.
[08:15]
I take a swim a trip time.
[08:16]
I go to bed, and I can maybe catch it on time.
[08:20]
But then recently, I had this really, really different migraine,
[08:23]
and I thought, ooh, this feels different.
[08:26]
And I looked at the medication, and I hesitated,
[08:28]
because I don't like to take too many medication.
[08:30]
And I took it, and it didn't work.
[08:32]
And it should work, because it's always worked.
[08:36]
But this one, I don't know.
[08:37]
It felt different.
[08:40]
And so there's going to start to be doubts.
[08:42]
Does that make sense?
[08:46]
This is crazy to me, because at least period cramps,
[08:47]
you know, they're predictable.
[08:49]
Clearly, migraines are not.
[08:51]
I would be so overwhelmed.
[08:53]
Are you almost describing just sort of living on pins and needles,
[08:56]
just waiting for the next thing to happen, like the shoe to drop with a migraine?
[09:01]
And so women, we sometimes refer to as impersonating their migraines,
[09:05]
as an evil person, constantly on your shoulder and say,
[09:08]
uh-huh-huh, I'm going to come back.
[09:10]
If you do this, if you do that, I'm going to come back.
[09:12]
And it may sound crazy, but it's very real, because it's a constant threat.
[09:19]
I mean, I'm thinking of my friend who has come to see you,
[09:22]
and she has described this.
[09:25]
I mean, it's like a combination of frustration and fear
[09:29]
and just never knowing what your body is going to do
[09:32]
or when it's going to react or what it's going to react to.
[09:35]
I mean, how do you even plan your life around something like that?
[09:40]
And so the term that a lot of women I see use is controlling.
[09:45]
These migraines have started to control my life, to control them.
[09:51]
And if women are able to use their intuition early on, really early on,
[09:56]
they can get outside of that controlling zone.
[10:00]
And I really want to share with the listeners wisdom around early intuition
[10:05]
and intuition at all times to get out of the maze very fast
[10:10]
before things are, quote-unquote, too complicated and too late.
[10:14]
Okay, so let's talk about this, because I obviously said earlier,
[10:17]
this is such a huge issue.
[10:19]
Oftentimes, we'll go to the doctor as kids, and we have a problem,
[10:23]
and the doctor gives us whatever medication or whatever, and we're fixed,
[10:27]
and then we are good to go.
[10:29]
As children, we don't typically have a lot of chronic health issues as children,
[10:33]
but then as we get older, we tend to, and then you see the doctor more often.
[10:38]
And like you said, right, we're experiencing these symptoms,
[10:41]
and yet they're misinterpreted sometimes, or maybe a lot of the time,
[10:45]
as being something else.
[10:47]
And then you second-guess yourself, you start to doubt yourself,
[10:50]
and that intuitive voice or that inner voice or that inner wisdom,
[10:54]
whatever you want to call it, starts to be diminished
[10:57]
and eventually almost goes out completely.
[10:59]
And now we're just looking outside of ourselves for guidance
[11:03]
and that intuition or that intuitive voice when, in fact,
[11:06]
we really have to be coming back to ourselves.
[11:09]
Yeah, and to really abandon what you say.
[11:13]
It's going to go as far as a woman going back to the doctor
[11:16]
with her increased migraines and being accused.
[11:20]
Sorry, I have to say that.
[11:22]
Being accused in that room of having more migraines
[11:25]
because she's not taking her medication.
[11:27]
And then she's going to reply,
[11:29]
but the medication gives me so many side effects, I try to avoid them.
[11:32]
And then saying, well, therefore, you have more migraines.
[11:36]
And so it's really, really hard because she starts to doubt.
[11:39]
It's either her or the doctor.
[11:41]
Someone's right and someone's wrong.
[11:43]
And she's really doubting herself because she's like,
[11:47]
well, that person should be right, but then should I be wrong?
[11:50]
But I can feel it in my body.
[11:52]
This is really not suiting me.
[11:54]
My goodness. Yeah. And so what do we do?
[11:56]
Let's talk about this.
[11:58]
To talk about this, we need to understand where migraines start.
[12:01]
And this is the Peer Party Podcast.
[12:03]
And we're going to talk a lot about menstruation
[12:05]
and all of the feminine cycle.
[12:07]
Because last time we talked about the fact that 5% of boys and girls have migraines
[12:11]
and the incidence is going to triple to quadruple for women at puberty.
[12:17]
OK, so clearly it goes on.
[12:20]
And then around menopause, it's going to increase for some,
[12:24]
decrease for others, disappear for others.
[12:27]
Overall, it's going to be less.
[12:29]
And so it's really in that peak fertility,
[12:32]
those peak fertility long years that women can be in massive pain.
[12:37]
Not always, but often.
[12:39]
So let's discuss about a few ways that migraines will start.
[12:43]
And we're going to start by the kicking off of puberty and the baby machine.
[12:47]
So let's imagine a girl.
[12:49]
She goes through puberty and her system starts to get in place.
[12:53]
OK, she starts to have migraines simply because her machine is getting going.
[12:58]
And before we do that, I might need to mention two things we discussed last time as well.
[13:02]
One is so to have a migraine, you need a genetic predisposition.
[13:06]
And we also discussed together how a migraine is like a firearm.
[13:10]
So some houses have a firearm and some houses don't have a firearm.
[13:15]
I think you work with a ton of women whose houses don't necessarily have a firearm,
[13:19]
but both houses can go on fire.
[13:22]
So all of these symptoms that we're going to talk about,
[13:25]
women who don't have migraines will also experience absolutely.
[13:29]
And so here we're in the situation of puberty kicking in and the machine getting going.
[13:34]
And of course, it's a bit rusty and the clock needs to get going.
[13:39]
And that process is not always smooth.
[13:41]
In fact, it's not smooth for most of us.
[13:44]
And if you have a genetic predisposition, migraines may kick in around that time.
[13:49]
One thing that may happen, let's imagine someone for whom migraines don't kick in at that time.
[13:54]
But they have a lot of premenstruation syndrome or their menstruation is irregular or they're in a lot of pain.
[14:02]
One thing the gynecologist might do is put them on a pill.
[14:06]
So it's like, oh, your menstruation is irregular.
[14:09]
Why don't we solve that and put you on a pill?
[14:12]
Yes. Story of my life.
[14:16]
Well, OK, for some women who have a genetic predisposition, this pill is going to massively trigger migraines one day to the next.
[14:26]
Now, that girl. She knows she took the pill.
[14:30]
She has the migraine. It's new. She just makes that connection.
[14:34]
You know, lots of things are changing in her body, in her life.
[14:37]
She knows, like all of them, they know they're like, I took that pill.
[14:41]
Oh, my God. At that stage, it's going to depend who's surrounding her.
[14:46]
Does her mom have migraines and does she know about it? Does the doctor understand?
[14:50]
Well, then what's doctor, the neurologist or the gynecologist?
[14:53]
Because these two things are separate, right?
[14:56]
One prescribed the pill, the other one prescribes the migraine medication.
[15:00]
If she's lucky, she gets out of the maze fast.
[15:04]
She uses her intuition. And so if this is your daughter, listen to her.
[15:08]
If she says it's the pill, take it out.
[15:11]
Read the side effects. If headache is one of them, this is it.
[15:15]
Don't go any further. Just stop it. Just change contraceptive.
[15:18]
And does she need contraceptive altogether? This is also a question.
[15:21]
If it's to solve symptoms, then I would argue not. Right.
[15:25]
And so this is the first thing to do.
[15:27]
So if you don't, then she's going to go into a maze.
[15:32]
OK, so things are going to get complicated because we're going to have a domino effect of the consequences of the birth control.
[15:38]
And things are going to start to be really tough for her.
[15:41]
Because in addition to all of her hormonal situation and the pill on top of that to cover some of that, she's going to have migraines.
[15:48]
And so everything is going to start to be more complicated in her life.
[15:52]
No, no doubt. Yeah.
[15:54]
Let's imagine that girl says it's the pill, it's the pill, it's the pill.
[15:58]
Mom, I swear it's the pill. You know, I need to change it.
[16:01]
Yeah, but we just started. The gynecologist might say, well, you just started.
[16:04]
Just give it a bit more time. Maybe it will settle.
[16:08]
And she says, I swear I can feed it.
[16:10]
She stops it. Her migraines are no longer going to stop because it's been maybe six months by now, a year by now.
[16:18]
And the domino effect, the impact of that pill in her system makes it that her system has more issues now and more.
[16:28]
If you want, the fire started to spread in the house.
[16:31]
So even though she extinguishes the first source of the fire, there is more fire in the house.
[16:36]
And so the doctor or the mom can say, see, it wasn't the pill.
[16:41]
But she's like, but I think it was.
[16:44]
Yeah, but you still have migraines.
[16:46]
But I really, I really think it was.
[16:52]
And so you see how we go in that really vicious circle where she starts to doubt her intuition because her first strong intuition as a woman was dismissed.
[17:03]
And on paper, rightfully so.
[17:07]
But she's still going to doubt it wasn't that.
[17:10]
Yeah. Does that make sense?
[17:14]
Do you find, you know, when women take the pill, they complain about other things or?
[17:19]
Oh, yes. I mean, it's a it's a plethora of things.
[17:21]
And so they're complaining about anything from vaginal dryness to sex hurting to migraines and headaches that they never got before and everything else in between.
[17:32]
I mean, acne, hair loss. We could go on.
[17:35]
So it's literally it runs the gamut for sure.
[17:38]
Yeah. Yeah. And they're told that it can't possibly be the pill in many instances when you insert whatever problem they're dealing with.
[17:46]
For sure. That happens so often.
[17:48]
And so you see, these have the similar root cause.
[17:51]
If you needed to solve the acne of that woman or if you needed to solve, I don't know, the hair loss of that girl, you'd still solve the same root cause.
[17:59]
And that would usually get the firearm off.
[18:02]
OK, this is why for me it's a firearm.
[18:05]
And and also I have to say on top of that, we see it's a neurological disorder.
[18:09]
So we're saying a fifth of our women, 18 percent of our women have a neurological disorder.
[18:15]
How wrong is that in the first place?
[18:17]
So nature decided that a fifth of women were incapacitated.
[18:21]
Really? Is this really how we want to consider our women?
[18:25]
This is the part where, you know, I find quite disrespectful.
[18:29]
OK, so let's imagine that. Let's imagine another situation.
[18:32]
So we have a woman. She bleeds a lot.
[18:34]
You know, she bleeds a lot. She's tired, etc.
[18:37]
And her gynecologist is going to say, why don't we put you on a Myran IUD that may solve it?
[18:42]
And so she puts the Myran IUD. Wonderful.
[18:45]
She doesn't bleed, you know, not for everyone.
[18:48]
But in this case, she doesn't bleed. She doesn't feel tired anymore.
[18:51]
It's really, really nice.
[18:53]
Then two years later, she starts to develop migraines.
[18:57]
And her intuition goes like, I think it's that Myran IUD.
[19:00]
But on paper, it's not, you know, like if it was a Myran IUD,
[19:04]
the migraines would have started when it was put.
[19:08]
But she still doubts it. And she's wondering, you know, is this the Myran IUD?
[19:13]
Well, and then she thinks through all of the to-do list.
[19:15]
OK, if it's that, I have to make an appointment.
[19:17]
I have to pay. I have to remove it. Gosh, it's painful.
[19:19]
And then I have to rethink birth control. And God knows what I'm going to get.
[19:23]
So she's thinking about it. The more she's thinking about it,
[19:27]
the more these imbalances inside of her body are aggravating.
[19:31]
So if she very quickly pulled it out, she can get out of the maze on her own.
[19:36]
And if she follows her intuition, she's going to get out of that.
[19:40]
OK, but let's imagine she goes back to the gynecologist.
[19:44]
And the gynecologist says, no, no. Like, honestly, most of the cases, it's not that.
[19:48]
And I don't think it is. And so she's starting to have a doubt.
[19:51]
And she's doubting herself and thinking, maybe I'll give it a bit more time.
[19:56]
And her body has more imbalances. And then she's going to end up removing it.
[20:00]
Because at some point, she's like, OK, I've tried everything by now.
[20:03]
I'm going to just remove it. And her migraines stay.
[20:06]
Therefore, the doctor can say, see, it wasn't your migraine ID. Except it was.
[20:12]
And so what happens is that when we menstruate, the same way we have bowel movement
[20:17]
and urination and good stuff and bad stuff come out, through menstruation,
[20:21]
also bad stuff's coming out. In the West, we talk about mucus and clots.
[20:27]
In traditional Chinese medicine, we're also going to talk about toxins
[20:30]
that come out of the body. And so when I don't bleed from a migraine ID
[20:35]
or a constant pill for two years, my liver's level of toxicity accumulates.
[20:41]
And that will be enough for my brain to say, hold on, can you please stop that lady?
[20:47]
I'm suffocating here. Stop it. And then when we decide to follow our intuition or not,
[20:54]
it's really where the road is going to split.
[20:57]
It's so great listening to all of this because what it sort of reaffirms for me,
[21:02]
and it's the message I often talk about, is that, first of all, we all have different dispositions.
[21:10]
Some of us are a little bit more sensitive than others to toxins and various other things.
[21:15]
But what I find is that we have these underlying problems.
[21:18]
We go see the doctor. They give us a pill or an IUD or whatever as the quote-unquote solution to the problem.
[21:25]
But really, that's just sort of like filling up the bucket even more.
[21:29]
And we're not addressing the underlying cause, right?
[21:32]
So we're just sort of like filling the toxin bucket or whatever you want to call it.
[21:35]
And then we're eventually pushed over a precipice, I suppose you could say.
[21:40]
We start to have migraines, for instance, even though we weren't having them before the moraine IUD,
[21:46]
but we were having other symptoms.
[21:48]
So now we've created even more symptoms with the intervention that has been given.
[21:53]
And like you said, it's totally a vicious circle.
[21:56]
And on top of that, we've just created more problems for ourselves.
[22:00]
And now we have to do a lot of backtracking.
[22:02]
But as you also said, do I want to come off of the IUD?
[22:06]
That was a nightmare to have it put in.
[22:08]
Maybe I should listen to my doctor and just give it another three months or whatever.
[22:11]
And so we talk ourselves out of it and talk ourselves out of following our intuition, it almost feels like.
[22:17]
Absolutely. And I want to tell you two stories that exactly exemplify what you see.
[22:22]
One story is without you and one story is with you and the impact that the first podcast we did together had.
[22:30]
The first story is this executive brilliant woman in tech.
[22:34]
She lives in Amsterdam. Twelve years ago, she puts a migraine IUD.
[22:38]
Ten years ago, she starts to develop migraines.
[22:40]
Three years ago, she starts to have high blood pressure issue.
[22:44]
So initially she medicates for the migraine IUD.
[22:47]
Then she layers medication for the migraine.
[22:49]
And then it all starts to impact her heart system and she has high blood pressure.
[22:55]
And I see that woman, we start working together.
[22:57]
She's really, really busy and we're working with foods because it's possible to do it on foods.
[23:01]
And I said, look, it might be the migraine IUD.
[23:03]
And she's like, oh, can we do foods? And maybe it's not that.
[23:07]
And at some point I said, look, just remove that thing and your migraines will go away.
[23:10]
And she did. And her migraines went away.
[23:12]
Not only did her migraines go away, the migraine IUD was also solved and her blood pressure was also much better.
[23:19]
OK, so this is one case where 10 years that woman has lost 10 years, 10 years of her existence, 10 years of her children.
[23:27]
You know, she said, well, you know, I discussed it with my husband and we're both ready to try.
[23:32]
And it worked pretty well. Now, the second story is a woman who calls me after our first podcast.
[23:39]
And we hadn't talked about migraine IUD, I think, on the first one.
[23:42]
But anyway, she calls and she had had migraines starting for the last two months and a half.
[23:46]
So really, really early. And I'm like, what changed in your life?
[23:50]
And so we discuss. I always start by listening. And I'm like, OK, what what is the context?
[23:54]
How did it start? And we both can't figure out a way.
[23:58]
And she says, nothing changed in my life. And so we go over it, etc.
[24:02]
And I have an entire system that looks at all of their answers and makes sense of it.
[24:06]
So I go through her test results and I'm like, oh, you have a migraine IUD.
[24:11]
When did you put it? It's like a little bit over than two years ago.
[24:14]
I'm like, it's that. That's what started. And she thought, damn it, I thought it might be.
[24:20]
But I discussed it with my gynecologist and they said, no, not necessarily.
[24:25]
So I don't know. And, you know, it's quite a hassle to remove it.
[24:29]
But these migraines started, but they started later. So I thought, you know, maybe I'm wrong.
[24:34]
And so basically I told her, look, we don't need to work together. Just go and remove that migraine IUD.
[24:39]
Your migraines should disappear because you're catching it early.
[24:43]
And if they don't come back and see me. And she was immensely grateful.
[24:46]
She was like, oh, I was not expecting an advice like that.
[24:49]
And she was planning a trip all the way in Europe. And I said, do that.
[24:54]
And when you come back from your trip in Europe, if your migraines are not gone, then we can talk again.
[24:59]
And she knew. She knew. Like I think deep down, she knew.
[25:03]
But she had that self-doubt because the timing wasn't matching.
[25:07]
So on paper, it could not have been that.
[25:10]
Yep. Again, I come back to the fact that we have sort of extinguished that inner voice, that wisdom that really needs to be cultivated again.
[25:22]
I feel like when it comes to the symptoms that we're experiencing so that we can advocate for ourselves, particularly when you're dealing with such a debilitating condition, whether it's migraines or chronic extreme period pain or a condition like endometriosis or uterine fibroids or whatever.
[25:38]
I mean, you and I both hear story after story like this.
[25:41]
So I'm really glad that we're having this conversation because I don't think I really ever talked about our intuition as it relates to our menstrual cycle related issues on the podcast before.
[25:53]
This is a good conversation to have. Is there any more around this?
[25:58]
I mean, I think there's pregnancy as well. We haven't really touched on pregnancy.
[26:01]
I feel like we talked about puberty and all these others.
[26:04]
So pregnancy, funny enough, is going to really depend. For some women, it's going to be their time of grace, their grace period where their body actually is functioning well.
[26:14]
Their body is giving life. It's producing a child and it's functioning fully.
[26:19]
And so whereas some of us might complain about hemorrhoids or things that are slightly uncomfortable, they're like, oh, my God, I don't have a migraine.
[26:28]
This is so nice. And so they're going to mention it.
[26:30]
I've had migraines for the last 30 years, except for my two pregnancies.
[26:34]
It's that moment of literally of grace where the body does everything that it needs to do well and is a provision sufficiently.
[26:42]
For some, it's going to be tough. It's going to be a tough moment.
[26:44]
Of course, nausea and sickness, of course, that will be for some of us.
[26:49]
But overall, a good time. Now, after birth, problems come back strongly and sometimes appear for the first time.
[26:57]
So for some women, migraines will start.
[27:00]
So like as a new mom, not only do you have a child to take care of and you have to run and understand how that child is functioning, etc.,
[27:09]
your whole body starts to perform differently and you start to have migraines.
[27:12]
Horrendous. Really, really hard to be a mom.
[27:15]
Then the sense of guilt. We all have that sense of guilt of work life balance and everything.
[27:20]
But then you add a layer of mommy has to go in a dark room because she's in pain.
[27:25]
Well, first of all, it's really stressful for a child.
[27:27]
And second, well, the mom feels short of the attention she can give to her child.
[27:33]
And so it's really a moment of hardship because maybe she really wanted to become a mom and she never imagined she'd be that kind of mom.
[27:40]
Right. And so like, is this a reset of the hormones?
[27:44]
Like what is happening that someone might start to experience migraines at this point in their life for the first time?
[27:51]
Yeah. So maybe women have come to you that were very fertile for the first child and then having difficulties for the second.
[27:58]
Oh yes. Many, many, many. Yes.
[28:01]
So through the birth, there's a lot of things that the mom gives.
[28:06]
You know, she's going to give so much.
[28:10]
And so she's going to give things that are obvious, like she's going to just fabricate a whole child.
[28:16]
I don't know. Like when you see the whole child, you're like, wow, I made all of this, the flesh, the bones, the eyes, the liver, the tongue, the lips.
[28:24]
I've created all of that. It doesn't come out of nothing.
[28:27]
So there can be like fundamental depletion, but also organ imbalances, like the whole kidney system becomes out of balance or bleds too much.
[28:36]
And so, you know, massive blood loss during during childbirth.
[28:40]
There's also something else that happens is that when you are pregnant, your gastric juices will send all of the foods to the placenta.
[28:48]
And that function in traditional transmission is also is the function that makes your skin very firm.
[28:54]
But your body wants it very elastic.
[28:57]
So all of that function will change in nature.
[29:00]
And so after that, if that system is not back in shape, your body is going to say, hey, can you get that back in shape?
[29:06]
We kind of need the digestive enzymes to fully back in the digestive system to be better.
[29:12]
And so it will come with a series of symptoms, but it can come after pregnancy.
[29:18]
It makes complete sense. And I also was talking to someone about this the other day on another episode about how so many of us are going into pregnancy so depleted to begin with.
[29:28]
So I imagine that it would almost be like a perfect storm postpartum, especially if you've had a hard pregnancy or you've had a really challenging birth.
[29:36]
Because as you and I both know, bodies don't just bounce right back. Right.
[29:40]
I mean, it takes months, sometimes even years to recover from something like that.
[29:45]
Yeah, absolutely. And so some women will say, for example, they were manageable before my children.
[29:50]
It's gotten out of control. I mean, a lot of women will say that to me about heavy bleeding or long, heavy periods.
[29:57]
They'll say that to me as well or period pain. It's just out of control post giving birth.
[30:02]
And it all completely makes sense. I mean, it's all tied in.
[30:05]
And I think that's the important point here, isn't it, that all of this is tied together.
[30:09]
I feel like you've really reiterated that throughout this conversation.
[30:14]
Yeah. Yeah. And so it's really important to not just attend the symptom because the problem is the woman after birth.
[30:20]
And sometimes, you know, they will say, where do I go for this?
[30:23]
You know, like it's just everything. I have symptoms everywhere.
[30:26]
I'm going to do blood tests and everything comes back normal, like a normal. But I'm in pain.
[30:31]
So, again, I feel something's up with me. I go to the doctor. The doctor tells me everything's good.
[30:37]
You're healthy. But then you say, but I'm in pain. I'm in pain every single day.
[30:41]
Yeah, but you're healthy. Yeah, but I'm in pain. Yeah, but you're healthy.
[30:45]
And then you start to doubt yourself. OK, is it in my head? And the problem is you can't see migraines on the MRI.
[30:52]
So it is in your head. But it's quite confrontational because it's this ghost thing.
[31:00]
It's sort of an invisible disability. And so like you start to be doubt, am I healthy?
[31:05]
No, I really feel I'm not like everything falling apart in my system. But I have nothing.
[31:12]
It's such an incredible point, the fact that you can't see them.
[31:16]
And so technically you have an invisible illness and an illness that only really you can communicate to your practitioner or doctor the extent of.
[31:26]
And so I can imagine how that complicates matters even more. You can see endometriosis.
[31:32]
You can see uterine fibroids. You can see uterine polyps or whatever. You know, you can see a thickened lining or a thin lining.
[31:39]
So there's ways to back up what your symptoms are, what you're claiming to be experiencing.
[31:44]
So I can imagine this creates all kinds of complications for those with migraines. Wow.
[31:48]
And I want to bounce off that. All of what you give as example are like sources of smoke and fire.
[31:54]
Right. Of course. Oh, yes.
[31:56]
If you have the genetic predisposition, then you're on.
[31:59]
And so the problem is then you're going to need to see two different types of doctors to solve for that.
[32:05]
And so you're going to mask two types of symptoms with more medication, which brings me to another start of migraines and another type of intuition, which is medication inside migraines.
[32:17]
So my women would say migraine medication gives me more migraines or I can feel it just gives me a lot of side effects.
[32:24]
But also medication for something else may give instantly a migraine.
[32:29]
And then again, trust your intuition. You need to agree with your health practitioners, but just try to come off of that as fast as you can.
[32:36]
Try something else, but just, you know, not something that's going to give you massive headaches from one day to the next.
[32:42]
Totally. I mean, I know there are a lot of other triggers for migraines.
[32:46]
I think in our last episode we were actually talking.
[32:49]
I think I mentioned about an eight-year-old girl that I had read about.
[32:53]
And she was an adult, but she was saying that she had been put on the pill at eight years old for chronic migraines.
[33:01]
Besides the fact that that is astounding to me on so many levels, like nobody should be on the pill at eight years old.
[33:07]
But also I had no idea that kids got migraines, but you said that kids can.
[33:12]
Yeah, kids can. Kids absolutely can.
[33:15]
So it can start around the age of five, six, seven, eight easily.
[33:20]
And so at that stage, it's not going to be hormonal unless demonstrations at eight, which is not extremely common, but you know, can happen.
[33:29]
It's usually going to be either digestive issues. So a precursor to a leaky gut.
[33:34]
So the migraine starts and say, hey, can you pay attention to me, please?
[33:38]
We're not on the right track. Can you pay attention to me, please?
[33:42]
Like we're off to a leaky gut or you can have trauma.
[33:47]
I remember this woman who I helped and she was having migraines and we were together and she was no longer having migraines.
[33:53]
But then they'd come back and we distinguish them and they'd come back and we distinguish them.
[33:59]
And I sat with her and I say, I don't understand why they keep on coming back.
[34:04]
There's something I'm missing in the puzzle.
[34:07]
And she shared with me that when she was five, she had been abused.
[34:10]
And this is when the migraine started initially.
[34:13]
And that whenever she was having thoughts of coming public with that information.
[34:19]
As she was able to do that, she was having these really angry feelings and she had noticed it was triggering her migraines.
[34:29]
So it's something that really came later in the conversation.
[34:32]
But it's probably that intuition as a little girl, she may have made the connection.
[34:36]
It's like, I feel so uncomfortable with this disgusting situation that my body is manifesting the need for help and the need for discomfort.
[34:45]
And as an adult, the thought of this whole situation has put some memory into my human beings and is triggering pain still.
[34:57]
Gosh. And like these incredible lives.
[35:00]
And so in traditional Chinese medicine, it's going to be recognized that emotions can control organs and organs can control emotions.
[35:09]
So, for example, if you have a really intoxicated liver, you might feel more angry more easily.
[35:14]
In folklore in the West, we also see this person is very liverish, meaning they get their, you know, they lose their temper easily.
[35:21]
We also see that, I think, in the latest advancements, we start to recognize how trauma, early childhood trauma can really alter the vagus nerve.
[35:31]
And so this is another root cause.
[35:33]
So if your child complains about migraines, I think it's, again, really important to tackle it early on.
[35:39]
Things can be solved fast and well.
[35:43]
But layering medication on top of that is going to add layers of problems because the medication is going to come and intoxicate the liver more.
[35:52]
And so adds to the current migraines or trigger new forms of migraines, which is scientifically proven.
[35:59]
These are called rebound migraines or medication overuse headaches.
[36:03]
So really difficult childhood.
[36:05]
I can't even imagine childhood, you know, challenging enough.
[36:09]
It's got a lot of things going on in childhood.
[36:11]
I can't imagine you're tackling migraines or dealing with them.
[36:15]
And again, it brings up the point that you talked about, actually, in the first episode we did together.
[36:20]
So anyone who's listening and hasn't listened to the first episode, you absolutely should.
[36:24]
And it's the leaky gut side of things, right?
[36:26]
So this gut-brain axis and the fact that the gut really is the root of all of the problems.
[36:32]
And so when you think about the trauma and stress and how that is a trigger for gut dysbiosis and leaky gut.
[36:40]
And so all of it sort of comes back to what's going on with the gut.
[36:44]
And then, of course, we add in hormones and all of the other players.
[36:48]
And then you have this perfect storm.
[36:50]
Perfect storm. And from there you have a domino effect.
[36:53]
That becomes a problem which triggers other problems.
[36:56]
And then the more you're going to try to solve them, the more you medicate.
[36:59]
And the more you medicate, the more you add more complexity in the mix.
[37:04]
Definitely. I agree. So everyone who's listening, you got to simplify.
[37:08]
So simplify, go backwards fast, follow your intuition.
[37:12]
Like if it just started, go backwards fast.
[37:15]
Go backwards. Exactly. Start undoing some of what you've been doing.
[37:18]
And is there anything else as it relates to causes or triggers that you want to share?
[37:24]
Because I definitely want to get into how you're able to help people in such a profound way.
[37:29]
Yeah. So there are other situations.
[37:32]
For example, stress can be one. And it's funny, women will be quite intuitive with stress.
[37:36]
They will say, I was speaking with one of your listeners yesterday and she was sharing how,
[37:42]
you know, I had, you know, at uni, I was quite stressed in my last year.
[37:46]
And as I finished uni, my migraine stopped and they had just appeared and they were stress related.
[37:51]
Then I had a first job. At some point, things got a bit toxic and very stressful.
[37:56]
And my body was telling me, get out of the situation.
[38:00]
And I'm like, and great. And she's done that twice.
[38:03]
But then something else happened. And she was like, OK, where did that come from?
[38:06]
So stress can really be a big trigger. And then I pushed the boundary on burnout, which is different.
[38:13]
And in that zone, I have seen women who are just they're hustling and they're having massive to do list.
[38:19]
And they go, go, go, go, go, run, run, run, run, run. They send themselves through the wall.
[38:22]
The migraines start and they stay in that mindset of fast, fast, fast to do this, go, go, go.
[38:29]
And so they start to layer on very fast, different approaches to tackle their migraines.
[38:34]
So like medications and other stuff and herbs.
[38:37]
And they can get to a moment where they make a bit of a cocktail with all of that.
[38:41]
And from there, it cascades extremely fast.
[38:45]
And so if this is you, stop, like devote all of your attention to migraines,
[38:51]
because this could define literally 100 percent of the rest of your life.
[38:56]
OK, so like really, really like be like pause.
[38:59]
Stop the frenetic to do frenetic doing without thinking properly,
[39:05]
because you may do damage that is going to go much beyond what you can imagine.
[39:10]
Yeah. I mean, to the point where it becomes a chronic problem. Right.
[39:14]
Or damage that creates even more chronic problems.
[39:17]
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And when you start to mix things, etc.,
[39:21]
it's like the intensity for the body to take it makes them almost unrepairable.
[39:26]
I've seen women that almost can't go back.
[39:28]
And they say, I was 42. I burnt out.
[39:31]
And that incident just changed and defined the rest of my life.
[39:36]
And so every single day I'm in pain on a scale of 10.
[39:40]
I'm at eight and nine and have these eight medications or nine medications.
[39:44]
And now when I go into rounds of Botox and I say, I think this is the trigger for migraines.
[39:48]
I'm told, yes, it also can contribute long term to more migraines.
[39:52]
So, like, just really be mindful, really be mindful. Try to stop, pause, listen.
[39:58]
This is your body. It's your priority. It's your license to live.
[40:02]
It's your license to love. It's your license for dedication.
[40:06]
And then, of course, there's peri-menopause and menopause.
[40:10]
Yeah. So at that stage, for some women, it's going to reduce.
[40:15]
And so it's going to be really tempting for some women to do a hysterectomy.
[40:19]
OK, because they're like, OK, we're going to get rid of these menstruation problems
[40:24]
and we're going to get rid of the uterus altogether and it's going to be fixed.
[40:29]
And as you would know, we're quite aligned on that.
[40:36]
Nope. So, yeah. But some women, it may fade.
[40:41]
For example, if blood loss was a root cause behind migraines, then, you know, this may fade.
[40:46]
But for some of them, they're going to have something called Meniere's disease.
[40:50]
And so that's a disorder that causes symptoms like vertigo, nausea, dizziness, which is sort of constant.
[40:55]
And so the woman is in a constant state of lack of mental clarity.
[41:00]
That's going to start to prevent her. It's going to force her into sort of early retirement
[41:04]
because she's not going to feel able to work and her self-confidence is going to be massively depleted.
[41:10]
And so it's going to be qualified as a disease.
[41:12]
And so she's going to have to accept and live with the consequences and sort of pull back earlier than she would otherwise.
[41:20]
Yeah. And it's again, I think that anyone who's listening who has struggled with this or, you know,
[41:26]
who's been experiencing any of these symptoms or has been teetering on the edge of burnout,
[41:31]
I feel like this is a bit of a wake up call. Is that what's happening here, Diane?
[41:35]
Yes. It's a wake up call on your intuition. It's like, woman, you got this and really trusted.
[41:43]
And let's put it this way. I have never met a woman whose intuition was wrong. Never.
[41:48]
Never. And so follow it. And your intuition is your best friend.
[41:55]
There is nothing, nothing ill-intended. Your intuition is not trying to make money on your back.
[42:01]
Your intuition is not trying to play with you. Your intuition is not having ego.
[42:06]
It's just there to serve you. And so use it as your best tool and have that self-confidence, please.
[42:12]
Absolutely. It is your internal compass. No doubt. This has been so good.
[42:16]
Can we talk a little bit about how you actually help people with migraines?
[42:21]
Because I know that you have quite a unique process that you use to help someone who is dealing with these.
[42:28]
Yes. So what I do is I ask women to fill in an online test, which is about 94 questions on all of the symptoms that we discussed and talked about,
[42:36]
some of which are Western diagnosis and some of which are symptoms that women feel.
[42:41]
And then we sit down together for a conversation on Zoom and we discuss for it's usually an hour and a half,
[42:47]
sometimes up to two hours about, you know, where it started and why it took a certain shape.
[42:51]
And we really go through all of the symptoms, how they interrelate and the root causes.
[42:56]
And if there's a good fit, then we together decide to collaborate.
[43:00]
And then I put an app together and in that app, I'm going to teach her what is going on.
[43:05]
I'm going to teach her, her. So we're going to wake up, dial up that intuition.
[43:09]
It's going to be dialed up because she's not just going to know what she has.
[43:13]
She's going to learn what foods are going to help her out of that maze.
[43:17]
And then she's going to feel things. And when she feels these things, she's like, oh, I see what she means with no cramping.
[43:24]
Oh, I had my menstruation. I didn't expect it.
[43:26]
I didn't realize it suddenly came and usually comes with a lot of blows and whistles.
[43:31]
OK, that's how it's supposed to feel when it feels fine.
[43:35]
And so her migraines are going to decrease in intensity and in frequency until they disappear.
[43:40]
And so this has been an incredible journey, extremely rewarding.
[43:45]
And I have to say that in the last four years, I haven't paid myself. What?
[43:49]
So, look, I initially I helped a few people.
[43:52]
I was still working and I helped a few people, you know, my sister and then a friend and then another friend.
[43:58]
And I never knew if it was feasible.
[44:00]
I was just trying to listen a lot and have empathy and try to find a solution.
[44:05]
Like, oh, come on, there has to be a better way, a better life.
[44:08]
And the more I did that, the more I received really complicated cases like, you know,
[44:12]
40 years of migraines coupled with 40 years of antidepressants and 40 years of antiherpes.
[44:17]
And I'm like, oh, my God, I never said I could do that.
[44:20]
I never knew. I discovered a world where people live that I had never seen.
[44:26]
And I'm like, wait a minute. What is that for life?
[44:30]
How can we as a society allow for this?
[44:33]
And so I still wasn't sure. Can I help her?
[44:36]
I think it's the intuition. I think I can. Let's try.
[44:40]
On paper, it's impossible. But, you know, who said it's impossible?
[44:44]
And so I was helping them little by little. And then I started to charge.
[44:48]
But it was always to make the system better and make it faster.
[44:52]
Yeah. And so it's been an amazing trajectory of purpose.
[44:56]
I mean, I know your qualifications and everyone else should at this point.
[45:00]
listened to the intro of this episode. And so I am shocked by that, but at the same time I can
[45:06]
understand too. I mean, I didn't pay myself or make very much money in the very beginning, but
[45:11]
you've been doing this a long time and you're like an incredible wealth of knowledge.
[45:16]
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, you know, if I echo that to your experiences, like you started and you
[45:23]
maybe have a bit of an imposter syndrome coupled with purpose. And I think it's the combination of
[45:29]
both that makes us as women sweat and go the extra mile and really think, okay, you know,
[45:35]
can I do this? And then also massive empathy because, you know, migraines knows no boundary
[45:41]
when it comes to income. Some people have a lot of money that have migraines and some people
[45:46]
have none. And I think there was always, you know, the inclusivity that I obsess with.
[45:52]
I think, you know, like if you're in pain, you have a right to understand where your pain come
[45:57]
and you have a right to live the best life you can. And so that remains an obsession. Now we,
[46:03]
you know, there is, you know, a payment and that payment decreases as a woman get better,
[46:09]
but it's really orientated towards, can we make it faster? Can we make it better? Can we make it
[46:13]
more comfortable? Can we make it more simple? Can we make it more interactive? Can we make it fun?
[46:19]
Oh, for sure. I mean, because healing should be fun. It should be hopeful. It should feel good.
[46:25]
Do you feel like there is anything that you want to share with anyone who's listening right now?
[46:31]
Any final thoughts or anything that you think would resonate with someone who's struggling?
[46:37]
Yeah, it's really, you know, coming back to that notion of intuition. If you really think of,
[46:43]
okay, migraine is a genetic predisposition and I'm born with that and I can't change that,
[46:47]
I can't change that for you neither. But if you embrace it and you say, you know what,
[46:52]
it's actually a tool for longevity. It's a tool of intuition that helps me guide through life to
[46:58]
live my best life. And I'm going to embrace it and listen to it carefully. And if you are taking
[47:04]
care of someone who has migraines and just got started, I'm thinking mothers to your daughters,
[47:09]
if you went through hell, just avoid that to your daughter, let her express her intuition
[47:14]
and try to get to the maze as fast as possible. Because once it gets complicated,
[47:19]
then it's really complicated.
[47:21]
It is really complicated. That's a very great point to end on. Thank you again so, so much.
[47:28]
I always love our conversations and I just want to make sure that everyone knows where
[47:32]
they can find you. So could you share that with us?
[47:35]
The website is called MyNectarHealth.com and Instagram is also My Nectar Health. And we're
[47:42]
super keen to engage with you. You have a beautiful community and it's been, I have to say,
[47:46]
terrific to meet so many of these women after the podcast, really understanding, in tune,
[47:52]
willing to learn and to see them make progress. It's been formidable. And I think that's what's
[47:58]
really for purpose. And it gives this massive amount of energy to see these evolutions.
[48:02]
So I want to thank you for taking a chance at your intuition and say, I think something's going on.
[48:09]
And I think women need to have a voice. You know what, in spite of all of the odds and maybe what
[48:14]
I'm told that I can or cannot do, I'm going to take a chance for us as women. Because I think
[48:19]
it's thanks to that leadership that we get heard more and considered more and trusted a bit more.
[48:26]
Well, thank you for saying that. I think that we're all in this together is what I've realized.
[48:32]
And we truly have to come together in order to affect change because there's a lot working
[48:38]
against us. And so ultimately, I think it's about rising tide lifts all boats. So thank
[48:42]
you for saying that. And thank you for being here. Thank you. Thank you, Nicole. Thank you for the time.
[48:52]
That's a wrap. Be sure to join me for more Girl Talk on Menstrual in upcoming episodes and let
[48:58]
me and my guests help you to get to know your period and your body better. In the meantime,
[49:02]
if your hormones are screaming for more, check out my previous period party episodes. And of course,
[49:08]
if you love what you hear, please take a moment to rate the podcast.
[49:11]
And if you're looking for an even deeper dive into your hormone and period problems,
[49:16]
go ahead and grab my book Fix Your Period by going to fixyourperiod.com.
