FFP 507 | Hormonal Migraines | Diane Ducarme

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[01:04]

This is the Fertility Friday podcast, episode number 507.

[01:14]

Today I'm sharing a brand new episode.

[01:16]

I'm sharing my episode with Diane Ducarme and we're talking all about migraines.

[01:22]

And if this is a topic that interests you, I'm going to also make a point of including in the show notes page

[01:30]

a number of episodes that we've previously released on the topic of migraines

[01:35]

and also on the topic of boosting low progesterone.

[01:38]

When migraines, especially when they're cyclical, when you're charting your cycles

[01:42]

and you identify a connection between migraines and menstrual cycle,

[01:47]

there's often a connection to hormone imbalances as well.

[01:51]

And so the general theme here is that by supporting optimal hormone health and balancing hormones,

[01:58]

many women also notice a shift and improvement in their overall experience of migraines.

[02:04]

And I suppose another important point and takeaway from these migraine-themed episodes

[02:10]

is that it's not this life sentence that you may have been told.

[02:14]

It's actually possible to restore a normal life with either no migraines

[02:21]

or a very limited experience of migraines over time once you implement these principles.

[02:27]

So before we jump into today's episode, I'll share a little bit about Diane.

[02:31]

Diane Ducarme is the founder and CEO of Nectar Health,

[02:34]

a company that advocates for and adds years to the lives of those suffering from migraine disease.

[02:40]

Diane has an MBA from Harvard Business School.

[02:42]

She is a Fulbright scholar and an Edmund Hillary follow.

[02:46]

She has a master's in science, engineering, technology and mathematics from Europe

[02:50]

and studied traditional Chinese medicine in China.

[02:53]

She's now with the Academy of Healing Nutrition.

[02:56]

And fun fact, Diane speaks seven languages, one of which is Mandarin.

[03:01]

So without further ado, let's go ahead and jump into today's episode.

[03:11]

And I'm excited to be here with Diane Ducarme.

[03:14]

Welcome to the show.

[03:16]

Thank you so much, Lisa, for having me.

[03:18]

You're welcome.

[03:19]

I just have kind of like a fun fact before we get into everything.

[03:23]

Because in your bio, you speak seven languages, one which is Mandarin.

[03:28]

I often wish that I could speak those.

[03:32]

I don't know if you want to share a little bit about that or a little bit about your background,

[03:35]

because I find that to be fascinating.

[03:37]

That's so cool.

[03:38]

Yeah, well, actually, I think when I was a kid, I was talking with my sister

[03:41]

and we would have pretend languages.

[03:43]

They didn't mean anything.

[03:45]

And I was always the godmother of her baby.

[03:47]

And she was the godmother of my baby, which now is true.

[03:51]

And we would speak fake languages.

[03:54]

I'm born in Brussels.

[03:55]

I'm Belgian of origin.

[03:56]

My mother tongue is French.

[03:57]

But in Brussels, you have so many different cultures that we were always exposed to,

[04:03]

you know, Dutch, but also English, German, Spanish, Italian with the European Commission.

[04:07]

And I don't know.

[04:08]

I think it just grows your brain with curiosity.

[04:11]

I don't know.

[04:12]

And then, yeah, and then I went on learning English.

[04:15]

And I moved to London.

[04:17]

And then when I moved to London and I was a teenager, before I wanted to become a doctor,

[04:21]

and when I moved to London, I thought, oh, my God, the world's so much bigger.

[04:24]

I want to learn languages and I want to travel.

[04:26]

And so I did that for a whole lot of time.

[04:28]

And then I learned Mandarin and I discovered, like, amazing stuff I want to talk to you about.

[04:34]

And I think my eighth language is actually migraines.

[04:38]

Interesting.

[04:39]

I love that.

[04:40]

It's a language of the brain.

[04:41]

I really mean it.

[04:42]

I know you asked this question by coincidence, and I've never had the opportunity to say that on a podcast.

[04:47]

Migraine is a language.

[04:50]

You'll have to in the bio.

[04:52]

Yeah, I'm going to have to in the bio.

[04:55]

You know what?

[04:56]

I might.

[04:57]

Well, that's such an interesting segue.

[04:59]

I love that, by the way.

[05:00]

Very, very fascinating.

[05:01]

I thought it was definitely worth a mention.

[05:04]

And so let us know a little bit about your background then, your professional background,

[05:07]

and then what has inspired you or motivated you to really deepen into this area of migraines in women?

[05:14]

Yeah.

[05:15]

So when I was a kid, I had a very weak health.

[05:19]

So I was the type that has the bronchitis, the infection.

[05:22]

The dad says, oh, to the mom, it's your genes.

[05:25]

And he says, no, it's your genes.

[05:27]

Clearly, this child is problematic and we're exhausted.

[05:30]

And so I wanted to become a doctor.

[05:32]

And I had a lot of empathy for people with body issues because my body would just always say no.

[05:37]

You know, I had the purple lips in the pool.

[05:39]

And it's not a big deal, but you can't just always tired, always needs to go to bed early.

[05:43]

And then, as I was mentioning, I went to London and I thought, wow, the world's so much bigger.

[05:48]

If I'm a doctor, I'm just going to know Belgium.

[05:50]

And that's so sad.

[05:51]

There's so much to the world, so many diversity.

[05:53]

I was just completely attracted by sort of being abroad.

[05:56]

And so I studied business and I became a businesswoman traveling around the globe.

[06:02]

And so I worked all over Europe.

[06:03]

I worked in South Africa, which I loved.

[06:05]

I worked in the Middle East.

[06:07]

I worked in the U.S. and I worked in China.

[06:10]

Prior to that, I had a skiing accident where I lost half of my blood.

[06:14]

I shrunk a kidney and I broke my femur.

[06:17]

And I had a skin in my forehead.

[06:19]

So I was 17 and at university and my whole face was full of blood for about two months.

[06:26]

And I was suddenly, I gained, you know, about 12 kilos or 24 pounds.

[06:31]

And my body was completely out of work.

[06:34]

So one leg was triple the other.

[06:36]

And I think I had taken for granted a functioning body.

[06:39]

And now it was really limping.

[06:41]

And after that, and so I was not transfused.

[06:44]

And after that, I really was struggling.

[06:46]

So I would nap from 2 p.m. to 8 a.m.

[06:49]

But I wouldn't, aside of my partner and now husband, like, no one would really know.

[06:54]

But I was, like, struggling with him, like, massively.

[06:57]

And I studied an MBA.

[06:59]

And when I did my MBA, which, you know, you'd think it would be the sharpest time of my life,

[07:04]

I was just completely uncharped and, you know, and unwell.

[07:08]

And it's when I went to China that I, one day, I had on my to-do list to try traditional Chinese medicine.

[07:13]

And I was taking classes because I was curious.

[07:15]

But I thought the teacher was average because it was always, the answer was always, it depends.

[07:19]

It was, like, why do I have cold? It depends.

[07:21]

You know, and I was, like, oh, do you know the answer? Yes or no?

[07:24]

And so I thought, you know, I'd either cross it off or I'd see.

[07:29]

You know, I went to see her when I was actually pregnant with my first daughter, with my daughter.

[07:34]

And she and, oh, you're going to love that, the gynecologist told me,

[07:40]

Dianne, you're borderline on your blood sugar level, you're borderline gestational diabetes.

[07:44]

And I cried because I said, look, I'm doing my best, but I'm exhausted.

[07:48]

I'm, like, smashed tired and I don't do it on purpose.

[07:52]

And so I, you know, she says, you have to stop with the sugar and etc.

[07:55]

And at the same time, coincidentally, I went to see that doctor and she said, oh, you still don't have enough blood volume.

[08:00]

So you're struggling in your pregnancy to recuperate that blood volume.

[08:04]

And she fixed me in three weeks just with food.

[08:08]

I was pregnant, but I was back to the energy I had when I was 17.

[08:12]

And especially after my after my pregnancy, my menstruation was for the first time regular.

[08:17]

So it was for the first time, you know, before it was a mess after that accident, it was regular.

[08:23]

So I thought, wow, what did she do? And my colleagues told me it's placebo.

[08:26]

And I thought, oh, come on, like I can't I can't decide not to have sugar cravings.

[08:32]

And I can't decide that I'm going to have a regular cycle. I can't just decide these things.

[08:37]

And so it fascinated me from there and started a love for food as medicine and the body and starting to help others.

[08:45]

And that's how things got started on the migraines.

[08:48]

That is really fascinating. I always find it just to be so interesting how people get into the work that they're doing,

[08:54]

because it's often a personal story, whether it's themselves or a family member or something like that.

[09:00]

And you said in three weeks you were fixed with food and your friends told you it was placebo.

[09:06]

I feel like this is just like this summarizes like the problems of our medical system right there.

[09:12]

Yeah. And look, I mean, my colleagues, I adored my work.

[09:16]

I was working at McKinsey and Company and a lot of my colleagues are men.

[09:21]

And I think it's really hard to relate to what happens in someone else's body.

[09:25]

So it's like, don't gaslight me. Don't tell me I don't feel what I feel.

[09:29]

I'm telling you, I feel it. But, you know, I never insisted because I thought, you know, it's just it's also unfair.

[09:34]

Like I'm feeling things that they don't feel. And I'm not going to start to talk about my administration at work.

[09:39]

But I was like, it's mind blooming. And then what happened is I started to take friends because, you know,

[09:46]

everyone talks to me to me always about their physical issues.

[09:49]

Like even when I interview people for tech roles, they're like, oh, by the way, would you help me with this or that?

[09:55]

And so my sister, my sister, my godfather died of a glioblastoma, which is a very violent form of cancer.

[10:03]

Very, very fast. And my sister approached me at that time and she said, look, I haven't told mom because I don't want to stress her out.

[10:10]

But I have these massive migraines for the last three to four years.

[10:13]

And I've done a couple of MRI and I'm and they haven't found anything yet.

[10:17]

But like it's very serious and it really makes me very anxious.

[10:21]

You know, I have three children and I don't know what it is. No one has an answer for me.

[10:26]

And that day I really hurt her and I really took it seriously.

[10:30]

And so I said, you know, why don't we call Dr.

[10:32]

Dang together and we'll help you out.

[10:34]

And so she was the first one I helped out with migraines specifically.

[10:38]

And she had no more migraines after three or four months.

[10:40]

But I didn't think much of it for me.

[10:42]

She had an imbalance. We saw the imbalance.

[10:45]

She was no longer in pain.

[10:46]

There was not much story.

[10:48]

Well, you say there was not much story, but something obviously had to change.

[10:52]

She thought she had something in her brain that might prevent her from surviving to see her.

[10:56]

Like based on how you're telling the story,

[10:58]

it sounded like she was really concerned that there could be something bigger.

[11:02]

Having multiple MRIs.

[11:04]

Yeah.

[11:05]

Now that I mean, I feel like I'm dancing around here because I want to get into some other questions.

[11:09]

But since you brought it up, tell us about what you did.

[11:13]

Like, what did your sister change?

[11:15]

So so basically she had a couple of imbalances.

[11:19]

She had had three children.

[11:21]

Her body was completely smashed and exhausted.

[11:24]

And she just had deficiencies.

[11:26]

Deficiencies at the kidney system level, at the liver level, liver system level.

[11:31]

And we just fixed those.

[11:33]

And it felt very natural.

[11:35]

And it felt so natural that they just vanished.

[11:38]

And, you know, we discussed like, is it?

[11:40]

Oh, no, it's completely gone.

[11:41]

I haven't had one in a while.

[11:43]

I think the day everything changed is when I did the same for the daughter of a neurologist.

[11:47]

She was a good friend of mine.

[11:49]

She said, oh, I've had this super confrontational conversation with my dad.

[11:53]

You know, I've had migraines for seven years.

[11:55]

I'm like, I'm so sorry.

[11:56]

I didn't know you had migraines.

[11:57]

She's like, yeah, I don't mention it often.

[11:59]

And my dad told me I need to get medicated for life.

[12:03]

And I'm like, oh, come on, you're 36.

[12:05]

What, like 50 years of medication?

[12:07]

She's like, yeah, including injections.

[12:08]

I'm like, including injections?

[12:09]

What do you mean?

[12:10]

That sounds crazy.

[12:12]

Surely no one does that.

[12:14]

Turns out this is common practice.

[12:17]

I didn't know.

[12:18]

And I didn't know her father was a neurologist.

[12:20]

So I told her, look, I looked into it for my sister.

[12:22]

I'm pretty sure I can help you too.

[12:24]

Give me a bit of time.

[12:25]

I'm busy with work.

[12:26]

But over the weekend, I look into it.

[12:27]

I open my books and I'm sure with Dr.

[12:29]

Dang, we can figure something out.

[12:31]

So I tell her what to eat, really simple things.

[12:33]

And then three to four months later, she had no more migraines.

[12:35]

And I'm like, well, hold on.

[12:37]

Like, it's her dad telling her to get medicated.

[12:40]

And her dad is a really good neurologist.

[12:42]

Why?

[12:43]

Why did he not tell her?

[12:45]

And so I just got curious.

[12:47]

I'm like, why was that?

[12:49]

And so I discovered 18% of women have migraines.

[12:53]

I discovered that it's genetic.

[12:55]

I discovered that they're extremely debilitating.

[12:58]

And then I looked into the medication because I thought I

[13:01]

must have given her something that resembles a medication

[13:04]

compound and not at all.

[13:06]

Like she was given painkillers.

[13:08]

And I thought, oh, gosh, they're targeting the pain.

[13:12]

But the pain is just a message.

[13:14]

It's just a language to say I have a problem.

[13:16]

But it's not the problem itself.

[13:18]

Oh, okay.

[13:19]

That's really a bizarre way to fix it.

[13:22]

It's a bit like if your daughter jams her finger in the door and

[13:27]

you go to the doctor and she says she cries and he gives you ear

[13:30]

plugs and you go back home, she starts to cry more.

[13:33]

She's like, obviously, you're not listening, mom.

[13:35]

And then you go back to the doctor and he gives you a Bose

[13:38]

headset and says, oh, there's noise cancellation.

[13:40]

We're going to fix that.

[13:42]

Then you go back home and then you're like, she's starting to

[13:45]

bang on the door.

[13:46]

And so I felt that just that doesn't make sense.

[13:49]

And I thought 18 percent of women.

[13:51]

Oh, my God, I must have a lot of friends.

[13:53]

Like I'm a friend's person.

[13:54]

I'm like, I must have a lot of friends with migraines.

[13:57]

And then I went to bed and I recollected these conversations and I

[14:00]

thought, oh, gosh, I've completely not dismissed them.

[14:04]

But because empathy is what you can relate to.

[14:08]

It's only then I go back home.

[14:10]

I have a migraine and I heard I have a headache.

[14:13]

And I've been such a bad friend because I kind of completely brushed

[14:16]

it over.

[14:17]

So I called them back and they still have migraines and they want

[14:19]

medication more than ever.

[14:21]

That is just so fascinating.

[14:24]

Let's dial it back a little bit for the listener who I mean,

[14:28]

I'm sure that there are plenty of listeners who tuned in to today's

[14:31]

episode because they get migraines and because they have questions

[14:35]

about how the migraines relate to their cycles.

[14:37]

So maybe share with us.

[14:39]

I think the stats on migraines are really interesting.

[14:41]

They're really high.

[14:43]

And they also show a very clear relationship to hormones for a lot of

[14:47]

women where, you know,

[14:48]

the onset is typically for a lot of women is coinciding with puberty,

[14:52]

which is when we started to make our hormones.

[14:55]

And then in terms of cyclically,

[14:57]

the migraines are often happening cyclically at certain times of the

[15:01]

cycle, you know, before menstruation, during menstruation, you know,

[15:04]

maybe around ovulation, but like, it's all, it's,

[15:07]

it's often cyclical for women when they start paying attention.

[15:10]

I often find that interesting just as a side note,

[15:13]

because many women have experienced this,

[15:15]

but until they actually like note down when it's happening,

[15:18]

it's only then that they're like, oh, this is always happening at this time.

[15:21]

Yes.

[15:22]

So share with us, like, what are migraines?

[15:24]

What's the difference between a migraine and headache?

[15:26]

Hey, by the way,

[15:27]

I just want to take a moment to just acknowledge your knowledge.

[15:31]

Most GPs, most even, I mean,

[15:36]

professionals around migraines will not completely understand that or

[15:40]

completely acknowledge that, or they'll say, yeah,

[15:42]

because when you look at a pure scientific paper, it's going to say, oh,

[15:46]

it's only a really small fraction of,

[15:48]

of migraines that are purely hormone related,

[15:51]

but there's so much more going on in the body.

[15:54]

And so it's exactly the way you described it.

[15:56]

So I just want to just take a moment to pause and say,

[15:58]

we have an expert in the room here.

[16:00]

Like, thank you.

[16:01]

I want to,

[16:02]

I want to interject because a lot of the knowledge that I, I mean,

[16:05]

it's a combination of working with women and seeing what's happening to

[16:09]

their cycle, but.

[16:10]

Listening to them.

[16:11]

Yes.

[16:12]

Listening to them.

[16:13]

But I also read a lot of scientific papers and it really doesn't take very

[16:17]

long before you see that relationship in the scientific papers.

[16:20]

So a lot of the papers that I have looked at related to migraines,

[16:24]

and maybe it could be what I'm searching, right?

[16:25]

Cause I'm like searching for that connection, but they acknowledge it.

[16:29]

It's right there in black and white that it's connected to puberty.

[16:32]

And there's a pretty high percentage of women for whom it is psycho related

[16:35]

who have, like,

[16:36]

it's not like you have to search in the research very hard to find these

[16:39]

connections.

[16:40]

No.

[16:41]

But if you receive a medical education,

[16:44]

you receive how many hours on this topic,

[16:47]

even if you study neuroscience limited,

[16:51]

very limited.

[16:52]

And then who does the education,

[16:55]

the continuous education,

[16:56]

well how the system works is when you get pharmaceutical companies

[17:01]

explaining new form of medication, right?

[17:04]

And those are pain killers.

[17:07]

So the explanations that revolve around this are more around CGRP and

[17:13]

mechanisms of pain along the vagus nerve, which are also correct.

[17:18]

It's also true.

[17:20]

And depending on how you look at the glass, like,

[17:25]

is it half full?

[17:26]

Is it half empty?

[17:27]

Is this blue or is this green when it's steel?

[17:30]

Well, it is also true.

[17:31]

It's a mechanism of pain and it's, it's genetic, but it's also true.

[17:35]

It's, it follows a cycle.

[17:36]

And so it depends unless you go actively, there's like, I guess,

[17:40]

two camps,

[17:41]

either you go actively at searching for the information and you find it,

[17:45]

or you receive the information and you will receive other things that exist

[17:49]

that will only talk about medications,

[17:53]

mechanisms of action in order to suppress pain.

[17:57]

And then with that, you might also be told,

[18:00]

which is true that there's a massive correlation with depression.

[18:03]

And so that when someone has a migraine,

[18:07]

another way to solve for it is with depression medication or

[18:11]

anti-leptic drug.

[18:13]

And so this is the focus of the knowledge.

[18:15]

Do you see what I mean?

[18:16]

Yeah, no, definitely.

[18:17]

It's, I think that part of my, what's the word?

[18:21]

Frustration doesn't quite cut it, but we'll use that one.

[18:24]

Part of my frustration is just that, but I guess you,

[18:29]

I guess you also have to acknowledge, like you said, how doctors are trained.

[18:33]

It's like anything there, the way that our medical system is set up,

[18:38]

the way that allopathic medicine is,

[18:40]

is that it's not designed to look for that root cause.

[18:43]

It's not root cause medicine.

[18:44]

It's a pill for every ill medicine.

[18:47]

And so as long as we understand that it helps us to better understand why

[18:51]

things are the way they are and why we're not, because like you said,

[18:55]

you were looking at how they were treating it.

[18:57]

So you decided to research the medications that they used only to determine

[19:01]

that they were treating the pain, but they weren't treating the cause.

[19:04]

And you can generalize that to a whole lot of medical type interventions.

[19:11]

And I mean,

[19:12]

I'm out here holding my flag up about the menstrual cycle for all these

[19:16]

years, because that's exactly how they treat the cycle.

[19:20]

So share with us.

[19:21]

I mean,

[19:22]

obviously the friends that were coming to you when you gave the example of,

[19:26]

I, you know, I haven't spoken to you for a while.

[19:28]

Like these are women who are having these serious migraines,

[19:31]

can't function for days at a time, sometimes have to take off of work.

[19:36]

So tell us the difference between a migraine and headache.

[19:39]

How does someone know?

[19:40]

Yeah.

[19:41]

How does someone know where that distinction lies?

[19:43]

I think, I think the, I think it depends on the pathway.

[19:46]

So for some people,

[19:47]

they start with headaches and then those become more and more intense with

[19:50]

life and with time.

[19:51]

And for some,

[19:52]

they have this super abrupt first migraine when they go to the emergency

[19:57]

room,

[19:58]

they lost their eyesight and they were put on morphine immediately.

[20:02]

And, you know,

[20:03]

things got extreme in both cases over time,

[20:07]

doctors will do this really important role,

[20:10]

which is diagnosing the migraines by exclusion.

[20:13]

So they're going to say,

[20:14]

because your MRI shows nothing and because your blood test comes back normal

[20:19]

and because there is nothing in your body,

[20:21]

therefore you must have migraines.

[20:24]

And then they go a little bit in the family history and that's how it's

[20:27]

diagnosed,

[20:28]

which can be very frustrating because it's a very invisible,

[20:31]

very invisible disease.

[20:33]

So it's almost just in your head,

[20:35]

which is very confrontational and very hard and not really accepted in

[20:40]

society.

[20:41]

And with lots of stereotypes,

[20:42]

which makes it very,

[20:43]

very isolating.

[20:44]

It's so sad that we're still here,

[20:49]

that so many women can experience such crippling and debilitating pain,

[20:53]

but that they're simply told that it's in their head.

[20:55]

Yeah.

[20:56]

Yeah.

[20:57]

like it's super hard.

[20:58]

It's super hard.

[20:59]

It's true of every family.

[21:00]

If you think in your family,

[21:01]

in my family,

[21:02]

I have like some team members who are family members who have migraines.

[21:06]

We say,

[21:07]

you know,

[21:08]

they're not being,

[21:09]

they have a migraine.

[21:10]

And we're a super kind family,

[21:11]

like really large and very inclusive.

[21:13]

It's still,

[21:14]

there's kind of a stigma with it.

[21:16]

Yeah.

[21:17]

And so after that,

[21:18]

so I called back some of my friends and then I started to just word of

[21:21]

mouth,

[21:22]

see,

[21:23]

Hey,

[21:24]

can I try to fix this using like systems,

[21:26]

like using rules,

[21:28]

if then statements like technology to fix,

[21:31]

to help women know what to take for their migraines.

[21:34]

And I thought,

[21:35]

you know,

[21:36]

I'd find three to four root causes of migraines and,

[21:38]

and it would be quickly done.

[21:40]

Turns out it was like super complicated.

[21:44]

They're like a myriad types of migraines.

[21:46]

Some of it's a relation,

[21:48]

some of it before menstruation,

[21:50]

some of the during menstruation,

[21:51]

some of the after menstruation,

[21:53]

some of it random,

[21:55]

some of it triggered by certain foods,

[21:57]

some of them triggered by stress.

[21:59]

And so all of these things that little by little,

[22:02]

just by talking with women and using the best of Western science,

[22:06]

using the best of traditional Chinese medicine and,

[22:08]

and working with these women hand in hand and always trusting that whenever,

[22:14]

whatever they were saying,

[22:15]

it would be true that I started to like form that system until I was really

[22:20]

able with really high predictability,

[22:23]

like help women in a way that would completely transform their lives.

[22:26]

And it gave me wings,

[22:29]

you know,

[22:30]

like it gives me just,

[22:31]

I mean,

[22:32]

just like you must feel just so much gratitude and joy that you find you do

[22:36]

something purposeful.

[22:37]

Like,

[22:38]

you know,

[22:39]

how many babies are fertility Friday babies?

[22:41]

It's just,

[22:42]

it's magical,

[22:43]

right?

[22:44]

Because these are,

[22:45]

you know,

[22:46]

this is life,

[22:47]

life force that comes after us.

[22:48]

And I think,

[22:49]

yeah,

[22:50]

I think,

[22:51]

yeah,

[22:52]

the energy came from there.

[22:53]

We'll share with us then a bit of the connection between migraines and the

[22:56]

menstrual cycle and the hormonal piece of it.

[22:59]

Obviously women suffer from migraines disproportionately compared to men.

[23:03]

Yeah.

[23:04]

So let us know what,

[23:05]

what's going on.

[23:06]

Let's go in the core of it.

[23:08]

So I would make the statement as far as the following,

[23:11]

as long as you have a genetic predisposition of migraines and you have

[23:15]

migraines,

[23:16]

your cycle and your fertility is not impeccable yet.

[23:21]

And it's when you manage to really get that to zero or down that your

[23:27]

fertility massively increases.

[23:28]

I even,

[23:29]

you know,

[23:30]

when I work with women,

[23:31]

because they do not come to me to have children,

[23:33]

they come to me for migraines.

[23:35]

So I always warn them a few weeks in,

[23:37]

they receive this newsletter saying,

[23:39]

careful,

[23:40]

moving forward,

[23:41]

your fertility is going to increase.

[23:42]

And some people say,

[23:43]

Oh no,

[23:44]

don't worry.

[23:45]

I never protect myself.

[23:46]

There's no danger.

[23:47]

I'm like,

[23:48]

Oh,

[23:49]

we're going to have to change that.

[23:50]

Like you might get pregnant.

[23:51]

And if this is not your life plan,

[23:52]

be mindful.

[23:53]

And so it's really an alarm system to detect that there's a problem.

[23:56]

And when there's no problem,

[23:57]

as we both know with the body,

[23:59]

just,

[24:00]

you know,

[24:01]

is keen to reproduce and is happy to reproduce.

[24:03]

When we have,

[24:04]

and you talk a lot in your podcast about tracking,

[24:06]

which I love when you track your menstruation,

[24:08]

you can track your migraines in parallel,

[24:10]

and then you can learn a few things along the way.

[24:13]

When you,

[24:14]

there's a number,

[24:15]

like you said,

[24:16]

there's a number of different migraines pattern that occur at the different

[24:19]

time of cycle.

[24:20]

So when you go to a relation,

[24:22]

this is really a moment,

[24:23]

you know,

[24:24]

that woman can experience migraine.

[24:25]

So they can experience migraine and form of like head pain,

[24:28]

but they can also come with cramps around the uterus.

[24:31]

And so this is the time of population.

[24:33]

In traditional Chinese medicine,

[24:35]

it's time of the kidney system.

[24:36]

So the kidney system,

[24:38]

it's funny.

[24:39]

Like language is structured in a way.

[24:41]

In Chinese,

[24:43]

when you see Shen,

[24:44]

which means kidney,

[24:46]

it actually does not mean kidney.

[24:47]

It means kidney and bladder and adrenals and behind the head.

[24:51]

And resilience to stress and ovulation and immunity to,

[24:56]

against big diseases.

[24:57]

So in traditional Chinese medicine,

[24:59]

what decides to go for pregnancy and says,

[25:02]

we're ready.

[25:03]

And what's designed to flight or fight or detects the big problem is the

[25:07]

same person.

[25:08]

It's the same function.

[25:10]

It's like,

[25:11]

Hey,

[25:12]

are we at war or can we get a baby?

[25:14]

You know,

[25:15]

like what is it?

[25:16]

And so it's that system that is going to be depleted.

[25:20]

If you have it more around a PMS,

[25:23]

then it's usually that your liver system is overloaded.

[25:27]

Okay.

[25:28]

So we talk a lot about hormones in your podcast.

[25:30]

And,

[25:31]

and here I'm going to take a slightly,

[25:33]

a slightly different angle to look at the same thing,

[25:36]

because everything that is said in your podcast is completely true.

[25:40]

And what you said is completely true.

[25:41]

Is that hormone fluctuation in traditional Chinese medicine at that time

[25:45]

is when your liver is loaded with toxins.

[25:48]

You're at your highest peak because your menstruation serves a purpose to

[25:52]

empty garbage as well.

[25:55]

So the same way in your urine,

[25:57]

you have bad stuff,

[25:58]

good stuff in your bowel movement.

[25:59]

You have bats of good stuff in your menstruation.

[26:01]

We have bats of good stuff.

[26:03]

And so the bad stuff,

[26:05]

all of the toxicity,

[26:06]

the toxicity from pollution,

[26:08]

from cosmetics,

[26:09]

from medication,

[26:11]

from food is all charged there and it's charged and it's ready to go.

[26:16]

And when that toxicity is excessive,

[26:18]

then you might experience migraines.

[26:21]

And those migraines will typically be more in the temple and the top of the

[26:25]

head across the eyebrows.

[26:26]

They're going to be different parts.

[26:27]

Your liver system,

[26:28]

which in traditional Chinese medicine governs all of your female hormones,

[26:32]

is the most linked to the brain.

[26:34]

And so in that moment,

[26:36]

you might also feel liverish.

[26:38]

So you might feel more anger.

[26:39]

And so when the menstruation is going to allow for all of that toxicity,

[26:44]

all of those toxins to come out and then the migraines might go.

[26:48]

But, but,

[26:49]

but for some women,

[26:52]

migraines are going to stay during the menstruation or kick in during

[26:56]

menstruation.

[26:57]

This is yet another kind.

[26:59]

When that happens,

[27:00]

usually there are a few blood clots stuck in your uterus.

[27:04]

And so you need to get those out.

[27:06]

Your body is grumpy.

[27:07]

It's feeling under threat.

[27:09]

If the body has a few blood clots inside the uterus,

[27:12]

it feels,

[27:13]

if this blood clot grows and if it attaches to the lining,

[27:16]

if my uterus is too long,

[27:18]

I don't like this.

[27:19]

This makes us vulnerable.

[27:20]

Let's get it out.

[27:21]

And so the body is going to cramp.

[27:23]

It's going to have that menstruation.

[27:25]

So this is where the pill will make no sense.

[27:28]

Because if you take a continuous pill,

[27:29]

you prevent your body from doing that very job they wanted to do.

[27:33]

Well,

[27:34]

that's going to cause a lot of anxiety because your body is like,

[27:36]

Oh my God,

[27:37]

we can't,

[27:38]

you know,

[27:39]

we can't get rid of that problem we have.

[27:41]

And so it's a,

[27:42]

it's a fine line to navigate here.

[27:44]

And then you can have migraines after your menstruation,

[27:47]

which is when you've depleted,

[27:49]

you've depleted some of your,

[27:51]

in your menstruation,

[27:52]

you have blood.

[27:53]

You also have genes.

[27:54]

So you have noble liquids.

[27:55]

This is when your noble liquids are really low.

[27:57]

So these are some of the cycles that we experienced.

[27:59]

However,

[28:00]

this is where a woman will feel confused.

[28:02]

It's not always like that.

[28:04]

And the pattern is not always impeccable.

[28:07]

And so even though you might feel intuitively,

[28:10]

my migraines are completely bridged to my cycle.

[28:12]

Like Lisa said,

[28:13]

I like,

[28:14]

but I tracked,

[28:15]

like she said,

[28:16]

and I put it,

[28:17]

and sometimes yes,

[28:18]

sometimes no.

[28:19]

Why?

[28:20]

It's because your body is going to prioritize constantly.

[28:22]

And if you've had that edge that,

[28:24]

and you talk about that in your podcast with Dr.

[28:26]

McMillan,

[28:27]

if you have that,

[28:28]

there's a,

[28:29]

there's a threshold of tolerance or a threshold of toxicity.

[28:33]

And if you're at your PMS and you have that extra glass of wine,

[28:37]

you're going to tip over.

[28:39]

But if you don't,

[28:40]

you won't.

[28:41]

And so this is where,

[28:43]

when you bring your data to a,

[28:45]

a GP is going to say,

[28:47]

well,

[28:48]

you say it's related to your cycles.

[28:50]

Well,

[28:51]

clearly not really.

[28:52]

So you see,

[28:53]

it's not that logical.

[28:54]

So you need to get up to medication.

[28:56]

Do you see what I mean?

[28:57]

And this is where women will lose a lot of their self confidence.

[29:04]

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[29:07]

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Now let's go ahead and jump back into today's episode.

[29:38]

That's so important and interesting,

[29:41]

obviously by looking at it through the lens of Chinese medicine.

[29:46]

And I think you touch on a really important point,

[29:49]

which is that it is always interesting.

[29:52]

And I think useful to identify those correlations that,

[29:56]

you know,

[29:57]

if you are charting your cycles and they are often related to the migraines and you can start to see,

[30:02]

okay,

[30:03]

I tend to get migraines in this phase of my cycle or that phase of my cycle.

[30:06]

And you said something interesting because you said,

[30:08]

then people will think like,

[30:10]

it's because my cycle is causing my migraine,

[30:13]

but it's like not your cycle causing the migraines.

[30:15]

And I think that that's the key piece of it.

[30:17]

There's these issues that are happening in the body and it's manifesting this way at this time for these reasons.

[30:23]

And it's the whole,

[30:24]

it kind of goes back to like the whole concept of the fifth vital sign where yes,

[30:28]

like you could see these connections and that's what's alerting you that there's something wrong.

[30:32]

But there's a whole lot of women that don't get migraines at this time of their cycle.

[30:35]

So it obviously can't be the cycle that's causing your migraine.

[30:38]

So like what,

[30:39]

let's dig deeper and find out what is really happening.

[30:41]

So I thought that was really,

[30:42]

really interesting.

[30:43]

The connection,

[30:44]

obviously,

[30:45]

to the liver and the different parts of the body that are not functioning normally,

[30:49]

the loaded toxicity.

[30:51]

And the interesting thing too,

[30:53]

I feel like for anyone who's kind of like not convinced,

[30:55]

look at what helps,

[30:57]

right?

[30:58]

Because what helps isn't to stop menstruating.

[31:02]

No,

[31:03]

no,

[31:04]

no,

[31:05]

no,

[31:06]

no,

[31:07]

no.

[31:08]

And again,

[31:09]

it's going to depend.

[31:10]

For some,

[31:11]

it's me,

[31:12]

but for some,

[31:13]

it may not.

[31:14]

You know,

[31:15]

I even pushed the envelope further.

[31:16]

I find that sometimes you can have a woman who has,

[31:18]

let's take a woman who has bled a lot.

[31:20]

She had really heavy menstruation and the heavy menstruation can create blood loss to the extent that the migraines are going to kick in because of a blood loss.

[31:30]

So it's the brain saying,

[31:31]

hey,

[31:32]

maybe,

[31:33]

maybe we don't have enough blood.

[31:34]

We don't have enough oxygen.

[31:35]

We're sharing it with the digestive system.

[31:37]

So if the,

[31:38]

you know,

[31:39]

we've eaten wine,

[31:40]

cheese,

[31:41]

chocolates,

[31:42]

like all of the blood is going to go in the liver and it's going to force it in digestion.

[31:44]

And the brain says,

[31:45]

whoa,

[31:46]

whoa,

[31:47]

whoa,

[31:48]

I have nothing left.

[31:49]

Then we take a trypton.

[31:50]

The trypton is going to contract the blood vessel and send the blood back.

[31:52]

And so we're going to feel with a bit of intoxicated blood.

[31:54]

We're going to feel a little bit normal.

[31:56]

And so let's imagine that woman who does this.

[31:59]

And so she's going to go on a migraine ID.

[32:01]

And indeed,

[32:02]

she's going to stop losing blood.

[32:03]

And so for a while,

[32:04]

she might feel,

[32:05]

oh,

[32:06]

this was like the solution for me.

[32:08]

I'm like,

[32:09]

I'm less fatigued.

[32:11]

And rightfully so,

[32:12]

right?

[32:13]

She's less fatigued.

[32:14]

She's,

[32:15]

she's building her blood reserve again.

[32:16]

Like if you just do the math,

[32:17]

I don't know if you've ever done this math.

[32:19]

You solve how much,

[32:20]

how many liters of menstruation a woman loses in her lifetime.

[32:23]

It's like 23 to 28 liters for the average woman.

[32:26]

It's a lot of material.

[32:28]

She has to refabricate the material.

[32:30]

And so she's going to feel like she can just,

[32:33]

you know,

[32:34]

reset and refabricated and feel fine.

[32:36]

The problem is over time,

[32:38]

she's going to accumulate these toxins.

[32:40]

And over time,

[32:42]

she's not going to have a menstruation to expel them.

[32:45]

So over time,

[32:47]

she may start to have migraines that are induced by the migraine ID.

[32:51]

Because she can no longer expel.

[32:54]

She no longer has that door to expel.

[32:57]

And so this is where it can be very confusing.

[32:59]

It was very dynamic.

[33:00]

So you need to really look at migraines like a fire alarm.

[33:02]

When the fire alarm goes on,

[33:04]

it's like,

[33:05]

let's try to find the smoke in the fire as fast as possible.

[33:07]

Right.

[33:08]

And then once we found it,

[33:09]

then we distinguish it.

[33:11]

If we let it go for too many years,

[33:13]

there's a juxtaposition.

[33:16]

So there's lots of different migraines on top of each other and becomes

[33:19]

really hard to read.

[33:20]

And so you have to undo the noise to really,

[33:23]

again,

[33:24]

detect these sensations and that strong intuition.

[33:27]

Well,

[33:28]

you said something interesting as well about this connection to migraines

[33:32]

or between migraines and fertility.

[33:35]

As you mentioned to some of your clients,

[33:37]

okay,

[33:38]

when we start working on the migraines and we start improving that,

[33:41]

you might notice the change in your fertility.

[33:43]

So share with us a little bit about what you found,

[33:46]

the connection between migraines and fertility.

[33:48]

Yeah.

[33:49]

So as long as they're,

[33:50]

so it's a little bit like the migraine acting like a genetic firearm,

[33:54]

which, you know,

[33:55]

I hope we can change the narrative to it is a tool for longevity.

[33:59]

So once the alarm goes off,

[34:02]

it means we're ready to go.

[34:03]

And so I have these beautiful stories.

[34:05]

For example,

[34:06]

there was a woman in Mexico and she was saying she was going better,

[34:09]

better, better, better,

[34:10]

almost like no migraines.

[34:11]

And then suddenly she contacts me and she says,

[34:13]

oh,

[34:14]

Deanne,

[34:15]

I don't know why I have to go for a test and analysis.

[34:17]

Like suddenly I have so many weird things happening in my body and I'm going

[34:21]

to have to stop the program.

[34:22]

And,

[34:23]

and I was so sad.

[34:24]

I thought,

[34:25]

oh gosh,

[34:26]

she was making so much progress.

[34:27]

I really,

[34:28]

what's going on.

[34:29]

And then she comes back 24 hours later and she says,

[34:30]

I'm pregnant.

[34:31]

And it was just that,

[34:33]

and she wanted to be pregnant.

[34:35]

After her,

[34:36]

I put in a signal in my system to say is also looking forward to get

[34:40]

pregnant because then,

[34:41]

you know,

[34:42]

had one recently in Europe and her cycle was delayed and she's like,

[34:46]

oh,

[34:47]

it's bizarre.

[34:48]

My cycle is delayed.

[34:49]

I'm like,

[34:50]

you're not just pregnant.

[34:51]

It's like,

[34:52]

oh yeah.

[34:53]

Okay.

[34:54]

So it's when the firearm goes off,

[34:55]

the body is just happy.

[34:56]

And so as long as it's on,

[34:58]

it means there's still a problem.

[35:00]

And so you have,

[35:01]

your job is to chase what is the root cause?

[35:04]

What is my body trying to say?

[35:06]

Trying to speak your body language.

[35:08]

Does that answer the question?

[35:10]

It does.

[35:11]

It does.

[35:12]

I think that,

[35:13]

I mean,

[35:14]

the way that I often look at the menstrual cycle is that as a,

[35:17]

a grown woman of reproductive age,

[35:19]

that having a normal cycle,

[35:22]

and even I can extend from just looking at the parameters of the cycle to

[35:27]

the general experience.

[35:28]

Is it normal to have crippling migraines such that you can't get out of

[35:31]

bed?

[35:32]

No,

[35:33]

it's not.

[35:34]

So I would say that that would be something to consider what is normal in

[35:36]

the menstrual cycle,

[35:37]

for example.

[35:38]

And when you correct those things in order to truly correct them without

[35:41]

just taking pain medication,

[35:42]

which like you should,

[35:44]

if you're in pain,

[35:45]

but obviously that doesn't like that's a temporary solution.

[35:48]

Right.

[35:49]

But when we actually address those underlying root causes and we are able

[35:51]

to see lasting improvements and changes,

[35:55]

I mean,

[35:56]

you had to shift something.

[35:57]

And once we shift into a more optimal,

[35:59]

whether it's hormone balance,

[36:00]

whether it's overall function throughout the different body systems in

[36:03]

order to kind of facilitate this shift to healthy cycles,

[36:07]

no migraines or far fewer,

[36:09]

then it makes complete sense that you would see an improvement in

[36:12]

fertility.

[36:13]

Yeah.

[36:14]

Yeah.

[36:15]

Yeah,

[36:16]

absolutely.

[36:17]

Yeah,

[36:18]

absolutely.

[36:19]

And you also mentioned something really interesting,

[36:20]

which someone who does not suffer from migraines.

[36:23]

I mean,

[36:24]

I have said on the podcast several times that the only time I experienced

[36:28]

who have experienced migraines before,

[36:30]

but the only time that I've really experienced migraines was the teen when

[36:35]

I was on the pill.

[36:36]

And I really didn't even make that connection until much,

[36:38]

much later that that was the only time that I ever experienced full on

[36:42]

migraines,

[36:43]

the aura,

[36:44]

the whole thing,

[36:45]

but it didn't occur to me what happens during pregnancy.

[36:48]

So I think that's an interesting topic that I'd like to hear a little bit

[36:52]

more about from you because you were sharing in our pre-chat some of the

[36:56]

challenges where if you are experiencing migraines and obviously having to

[37:00]

medicate for them,

[37:01]

then what happens when you are pregnant?

[37:03]

You know,

[37:04]

are you continuing to take those same medications?

[37:06]

Like,

[37:07]

how are you managing that?

[37:08]

Okay.

[37:09]

Yeah.

[37:10]

So it's really important point.

[37:11]

When,

[37:12]

when women get pregnant,

[37:13]

it can happen.

[37:14]

One of two ways,

[37:15]

if we make things simple,

[37:16]

either she stops having migraines and this is going to be the most beautiful

[37:19]

time of her life.

[37:20]

I need a woman who say I've had migraines for the last 30 years.

[37:23]

And my pregnancy was my two pregnancy or three pregnancies were the only time

[37:27]

where I was like,

[37:28]

Oh heaven.

[37:29]

So when everyone comes things about other symptoms,

[37:31]

I'm like,

[37:32]

Oh,

[37:33]

I have migraines.

[37:34]

So this can be one type of woman.

[37:35]

The other type of woman can accentuate and become worse or in different forms

[37:39]

and,

[37:40]

and,

[37:41]

and very throughout trimesters.

[37:42]

And at that stage,

[37:44]

like you said earlier,

[37:45]

when you're in pain,

[37:46]

you have to medicate.

[37:47]

You just can't make it chronically,

[37:49]

but you have to do what you need to do to,

[37:51]

to function when you're pregnant might be an exception.

[37:54]

There's again,

[37:55]

if you search for it,

[37:56]

you will find it.

[37:57]

There's a number of research that points out that even a Tylenol,

[38:01]

which,

[38:02]

you know,

[38:03]

has been for some years,

[38:04]

you know,

[38:05]

treated as something quite benign to take during pregnancy would be responsible

[38:09]

for more ADHD in children,

[38:11]

right?

[38:12]

There's a number of classes of,

[38:14]

of medication that have been proven to be,

[38:17]

if you look for medications that will damage the liver of the fetus,

[38:20]

you know,

[38:21]

you'd find all of the acetaminophen.

[38:23]

So the Tylenol,

[38:24]

all of the NSAIDs.

[38:26]

So the non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs,

[38:29]

which are highly used for migraines,

[38:31]

such as ibuprofen and all of the anti-antibiotic medication,

[38:36]

which are also used for migraines.

[38:38]

So all of those are going to damage the liver of the fetus.

[38:42]

Now the liver as a system is highly correlated to the brain.

[38:45]

And so it's really important to be mindful.

[38:47]

If you can't have alcohol when you're pregnant,

[38:50]

or,

[38:51]

and if we don't recommend recreational drugs,

[38:53]

well,

[38:54]

you need to be really mindful of,

[38:55]

of the damage being caused.

[38:57]

Now,

[38:58]

you know,

[38:59]

in saying that it's like you have to sit with your pain and it can be,

[39:01]

you know,

[39:02]

absolutely awful,

[39:03]

but it's equally very difficult.

[39:05]

We both have children.

[39:06]

I believe you have three,

[39:07]

you know,

[39:08]

to raise like children with needs,

[39:10]

right?

[39:11]

It's just,

[39:12]

it's,

[39:13]

you know,

[39:14]

life is full on.

[39:15]

So it might be,

[39:16]

it's a,

[39:17]

it's a short term sacrifice that I would strongly encourage you to do if

[39:20]

you can.

[39:21]

You mentioned a couple of situations where,

[39:24]

of course you were able,

[39:25]

like many situations where you were able to support women to overcome their

[39:28]

migraines so that they were no longer getting them on a regular basis or at

[39:32]

all.

[39:33]

And are there any situations where that has worked or could work for women

[39:38]

who are pregnant?

[39:39]

So I guess the question is the solutions that you're supporting women with

[39:43]

when they're not pregnant,

[39:44]

are any of those solutions available when women are pregnant and are migraine

[39:48]

sufferers?

[39:49]

Yeah,

[39:50]

actually there's,

[39:51]

there's something that happens when,

[39:53]

for example,

[39:54]

when a woman is pregnant,

[39:55]

she needs to go from,

[39:56]

let's say four or five liters of blood to about eight.

[40:00]

So she does 1.5.

[40:02]

You will know those metrics exactly with more exact attitude than I would.

[40:05]

But so she makes that huge effort.

[40:07]

And when that can't happen or can't happen,

[40:10]

well,

[40:11]

she might experience migraines.

[40:13]

Now,

[40:14]

some of the medication we contract the blood vessels again to irrigate the

[40:18]

body faster,

[40:19]

but it doesn't replace more blood.

[40:21]

And so just,

[40:22]

you know,

[40:23]

trying to have more blood from food can completely help in that situation.

[40:27]

So this is,

[40:28]

can be one,

[40:29]

one type of migraine that you can completely help during this during

[40:32]

pregnancy.

[40:33]

Yeah.

[40:34]

And it will help to carry a good pregnancy again,

[40:37]

the more you're good.

[40:39]

That's why,

[40:40]

you know,

[40:41]

sometimes I meet women who have migraines and they're telling me I'm going

[40:45]

to go for IVF.

[40:46]

And I'm like,

[40:47]

Ooh,

[40:48]

can we wait,

[40:49]

please?

[40:50]

Can you postpone it by one or two months?

[40:52]

Like,

[40:53]

can we make,

[40:54]

you know,

[40:55]

it's a bit like I tell them,

[40:56]

like,

[40:57]

let's imagine your,

[40:58]

your earth is like the desert and you're going to take a little tree that

[41:00]

you planted in the lab and you're going to put it in your desert.

[41:02]

It may grow.

[41:03]

Look at me.

[41:04]

It's me,

[41:05]

but can we make the earth a bit more fertile before we do?

[41:08]

Can we water it?

[41:09]

Can we fertilize it?

[41:10]

Can we,

[41:11]

and then chances are much bigger that things will take off.

[41:15]

And maybe it didn't take off naturally before because it,

[41:18]

a lot of the migraines are like that,

[41:20]

but other symptoms,

[41:21]

you know,

[41:22]

help us point in the right direction of what,

[41:24]

what to fix.

[41:25]

Yeah.

[41:26]

Well,

[41:27]

so as we start wrapping up our call today,

[41:30]

I mean,

[41:31]

for someone who is listening specifically because the word migraine is in

[41:35]

the title of today's episode and they've been a sufferer,

[41:38]

what,

[41:39]

if anything,

[41:40]

would you want them to take away from our conversation today?

[41:42]

Well,

[41:43]

I would like to flip the finding and say that the more you're going to

[41:50]

medicate for migraines,

[41:51]

the more you're going to have migraines and that's a phenomenon,

[41:54]

which is called,

[41:55]

which is called a rebound migraines or medication overuse headaches.

[41:58]

And women will feel that,

[41:59]

but I want to push the envelope further today because we're on the

[42:02]

fertility Friday,

[42:03]

you know,

[42:04]

podcast,

[42:05]

those medication will impact your liver system,

[42:08]

which will impact your hormones.

[42:10]

And so if you are in a situation where you need to medicate,

[42:14]

you know,

[42:15]

very often,

[42:16]

and you are in age of fertility,

[42:18]

just take a moment of pause,

[42:20]

wonder why your body cannot function like this.

[42:23]

And,

[42:24]

and what,

[42:25]

what sort of harm,

[42:26]

what collateral harm are you doing?

[42:28]

And there's something really to be said about taking more medications and

[42:32]

impacting your natural hormonal cycle.

[42:34]

Yeah.

[42:35]

I mean,

[42:36]

it's just so interesting to think about.

[42:39]

I always strive to find this balance between encouraging.

[42:44]

So I would say the parallel in my mind to what I'm more often talking about

[42:48]

would be period pain.

[42:50]

And so I'm often walking this balance between encouraging women to look

[42:54]

deeper and really getting into the root cause so that you can get to the

[42:58]

place where either you have far less painful periods,

[43:02]

or for some women,

[43:03]

they're able to have pain free periods,

[43:05]

but while simultaneously not,

[43:08]

you know,

[43:09]

discouraging women from using the pain medications when they're still in that

[43:12]

phase where they're experiencing the pain,

[43:14]

but hopefully exactly like hoping that we can eventually wean them off of them,

[43:19]

not because we're trying to make them suffer,

[43:21]

but because they're actually getting better.

[43:23]

Absolutely.

[43:24]

And look,

[43:25]

when I work,

[43:26]

I only add foods.

[43:27]

That's number one.

[43:28]

But I also tell women,

[43:29]

look,

[43:30]

if you're in pain,

[43:31]

you medicate yourself like,

[43:32]

or you don't change your,

[43:33]

your plan.

[43:34]

Your job is your manager paid.

[43:35]

My job is you have no more pain.

[43:37]

It's a bit like Lisa's job is you make to make your fertile.

[43:41]

Your job is to manage to be functional along the way.

[43:45]

But once Lisa fixed your menstruation,

[43:48]

you also solved for that.

[43:50]

And you then no longer needs that medication.

[43:52]

I think chronically medicating,

[43:55]

you know,

[43:56]

does harm,

[43:57]

does harm your,

[43:58]

your liver system and therefore your hormonal system.

[44:01]

And so interesting,

[44:03]

the phenomenon that you mentioned where the kind of consistent overmedicating

[44:08]

leads to a worsening of the symptoms,

[44:11]

which I mean,

[44:12]

that doesn't seem like such a stretch to me for sure.

[44:15]

Especially if you're also not addressing because you didn't know,

[44:19]

or your health practitioners didn't know to do that to also start addressing

[44:24]

the underlying root cause factors.

[44:26]

Yeah,

[44:27]

And look,

[44:28]

if you put yourself in the,

[44:29]

the shoe of a doctor,

[44:30]

which is really hard is you have this patient in massive pain and you have a

[44:34]

medication that you know is going to give them rebound migraines.

[44:37]

Do you tell them?

[44:38]

It's a,

[44:39]

it's,

[44:40]

it's a question.

[44:41]

You know,

[44:42]

if,

[44:43]

if your patient is a little girl,

[44:44]

you're going to tell the mom,

[44:45]

look,

[44:46]

I'm going to give you this medication.

[44:47]

You have to be careful because the more you're going to medicate her,

[44:49]

the more she's going to have migraines.

[44:50]

So you have to find the right balance.

[44:52]

But if the patient is the person yourself,

[44:55]

you know,

[44:56]

how do you want to navigate that fine line?

[44:58]

So usually women will come back and say,

[45:00]

feel I have to upgrade the medication, I feel I'm in more pain. And ultimately, the doctor

[45:05]

will say, oh yeah, well, there's a rebound migraine effect that I'd like to share with

[45:09]

you now that you mentioned it. But, you know, it's hard. It's equally hard for them.

[45:16]

Well, Diane, this has been so informative, so important. I'm just, I'm excited to share this

[45:23]

episode with the audience and to really enhance their knowledge and awareness of migraines and

[45:28]

the connection to the menstrual cycle and hormone health and through the different body systems as

[45:33]

well. So let us know where we can go to find more information about you, what you do. Let us know

[45:39]

how we can get in touch. So I have a website called My Nectar Health. Nectar like the flower.

[45:46]

And so you can get on there. There you can take a test and we can meet and talk about your

[45:50]

migraines extensively. And I think I love the conversation where I'm explaining to them,

[45:54]

with them themselves, you know, the relationship between all of these symptoms or feelings in their

[45:59]

migraines. And then I started to do a podcast called Migraine Heroes, where I'm actually

[46:06]

interviewing just women about their life with migraines. And it's incredible, like the level

[46:12]

of sufferance, the level of gaslighting, the level of nonsense that many of them go through

[46:16]

and the impact on their personal life. It's been very, very humbling to listen to them. So this

[46:23]

invitation. I can imagine. Oh my goodness. Well, that is such an amazing resource for women who

[46:32]

have suffered migraines, because I can imagine that probably the majority have experienced at

[46:38]

least some level of gaslighting. So we'll be sure to link those places in the show notes page for

[46:43]

anyone who's on the go. And so I just want to thank you again for being on the show. This was

[46:48]

great. It was such a nice opportunity to chat with you. Yeah. And look, I really want to acknowledge

[46:52]

your work and acknowledge how in massive capable hands women are with you. And, you know, being a

[46:59]

mom, like it's just so important. It's so much more like a good fertility, a true fertility

[47:05]

with a true pregnancy that is all organic and natural leads to a really, really healthy baby.

[47:12]

And in traditional Chinese medicine, people say that the strength of the child is as strong as the

[47:19]

strength of the parents at conception. And so when you do things very naturally and you follow

[47:25]

your cycle and you listen to your fifth vitality sign, then it leads to a really long term family

[47:31]

happiness. And I really, I just want to really encourage the audience to go in that direction

[47:37]

because it has way more implications that can only understand after the fact.

[47:43]

Mm hmm. Well, thank you so much. And thank you for that. Diane, it's been a pleasure.

[47:48]

Thank you so much.

[47:50]

Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed today's show, please share it with a friend.

[47:53]

You'll find the show notes page for today's episode over at fertilityfriday.com slash 507.

[47:59]

I hope that you enjoyed today's episode. As I mentioned at the top of the episode, if

[48:04]

you are keen to learn more about migraines and how they're related to the menstrual cycle and

[48:10]

hormones and some potential solutions, make sure to tune into episode 455. That was my episode with

[48:18]

Dr. Meg Mill. And that episode was absolutely fabulous on this topic. Dr. Mill went into a

[48:24]

great deal of detail and depth and really helps to explain why there is this connection and why

[48:30]

it is that women experience migraines at such a higher rate compared to men. And this topic is

[48:36]

also covered in episode 456. That was one of our FAM research series episodes where I went

[48:43]

in depth into one of the research studies, a recent research study that's actually looking

[48:48]

at this question as well. So lots of great information for you, especially if you are keen

[48:52]

to learn more about the topic of migraines. So with that said, I hope you have a wonderful week,

[48:57]

weekend, whenever you're tuning into the show. And of course, as always, until next time, be well

[49:02]

and happy charting. And that's a wrap. If you're loving the podcast, then I know you'll love our

[49:07]

Fertility Awareness Mastery Mentorship Program. It's a nine month immersive experience that will

[49:12]

completely transform the way you work with clients, allowing you to not only teach fertility

[49:17]

awareness to your clients, but to use the menstrual cycle as vital sign and diagnostic tool in your

[49:22]

women's health practice. Our next class starts on February 27. So there's still time to reserve

[49:28]

your spot. There's no other program like this offered anywhere. Transform your practice in

[49:33]

nine months. Head over to fertility friday.com slash fam live to apply now. That's fertility

[49:39]

friday.com slash f a m m l i v e