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Hello, this is the Migraine Heroes podcast, a podcast where we share real stories from
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real people suffering and battling with migraine disease.
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In this podcast, we seek to provide support, hope, holistic health advocacy, and inspiration
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for those who suffer from migraines.
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Hello, Marine, great to have you here.
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I'm so happy to be with you.
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I'm so thrilled to do this first podcast with you.
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When I was thinking who I should do this very first podcast, your heart and your soul and
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your face came in my mind and I thought it would be just, you know, the perfect match.
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Thank you so much.
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And as you will hear in this podcast, our journey intertwined and it just changes our
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life for good after.
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So we meet in 2011, which is already about 12 years ago.
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And do you want to explain, do you want to explain in what context?
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I was, you know, we were living in the same residence in Shanghai, both of us had newborns
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And as we came of a walking age, my son kept on thinking you were me from afar and calling
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And so, and so at some point you reach out and say, hey, maybe we should meet since we
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seem to have shared the journey.
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And that's how we started, our kids became friends and started playing with each other
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And, you know, the rest is history.
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It's so cute because Manon would come back and she mentioned your son a lot.
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And so I said to my husband, maybe we should meet these people.
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And so we didn't shoot as they, as they grew up together and still know each other after
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So you remember what you were doing at the time and how life was?
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Well, you know, Five Space Life in China, I was working in a foreign American company
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in the incentive business.
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I was traveling a lot for trips with clients and so on and so forth.
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Very busy time, partying, brunching, traveling in a young mom.
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So it was really, it was really something, Shanghai times.
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I remember on Friday evenings, we'd, you know, get together and the kids would bath together
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and we'd have a cheese and wine and I thought, this is the time to have a relaxing time.
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And we were so happy to be together.
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It was really, really special.
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How did you find becoming a mom on top of work?
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You know, it was, I was, I mean, I was ready to be a mom.
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I think I was, I don't know.
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I knew that I would be mom by pretty young age for my generation, 26.
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And for me, it was very natural.
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It was very scary.
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I was very surprised about how focused it made me at work.
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I was worried because I was really in the workaholic category and work hard, play hard,
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which you do a lot when you're 20 plus.
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And anyway, I was very surprised.
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I was so much more focused and efficient.
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When I came to work, I started understanding my colleagues who had been moms before me,
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which is, you know, was a good realization, humbling realization.
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And it was scary though.
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It was, it was painful.
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It was very demanding and juggling, I think, different roles, which that one extra that
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took so much space was tough as well, because you're not just, you know, a woman and a wife
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and a daughter, a sister or a best friend, and you add the mom on top of it.
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And that's kind of the most important one, the most important role that takes on, especially
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the first two years, breastfeeding was tough, yet I couldn't let it go.
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So yeah, it's just full of contradiction.
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I think motherhood, but overall, it's beautiful.
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I still love being a mom.
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And I became a mom a second time, a couple of years later, and I'm very happy.
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And if I remember, like, you were quite a machine, right?
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Like when, I mean, we both were to some extent, like you were working really long hours.
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And then you were like me, you were full at work and then full as a mom, like there was,
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then still exercising, looking gorgeous.
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I had a lot of motivation at home.
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My husband is very much in that movement.
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And I don't come from a background or a family where sports was, you know, at the core of
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education or anything.
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I did have that on my own when I was young.
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And then when I met my husband, it was so key to him.
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So I got into it to be with him basically at the beginning, and then it becomes part
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But yeah, it's true also that, you know, maternity and weight takes a toll and, you know, it's
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I feel it's like, you know, your feet are bigger and your clothes don't fit, you know,
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the pants that you used to wear so proudly with a very tiny waist, suddenly you feel
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like your ribcage have expanded, you feel like, oh, yeah.
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But yeah, no, it's, I mean, you change a bit lifestyle.
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Even though we didn't change that much, we kept on going out and, but your priorities
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shift and, and yeah, I've always been a hundred percent in what I do.
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I still am to this day.
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It can play against me sometimes, but no, it really is part of my personality.
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I wouldn't do anything any other way, really.
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I've had my company and I was full-on and when I've been working for many other entrepreneurs
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and I've been full-on just as it was, just like it was my firm as well.
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And I love it just the same.
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At that stage as well, I remember you migraine less, right?
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You did not have migraine.
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I, it didn't start up until I came to Singapore in 2015.
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And also at that, at that time I was super unknowledgeable about migraines.
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So I was working full-time as a consultant.
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So as traveling, as, as, you know, I don't know if it was more or less than you, it was
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probably about the same or differently, but your hours were crazy because you were working
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I remember you had calls very late.
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So when I started with McKinsey, my first engagement was in Italy.
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And then I had like, you know, I was in charge of multiple countries and there was not enough
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And I remember working really long hours.
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I'd start at nine, but then I remember one day finishing at five, except it was not 5
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Otherwise midnight would be the norm.
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It was really intense, but I, I, I, I liked it.
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Did, um, did becoming a mom made you feel a need for change of purpose or not really?
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I think you have, um, you have a different, what really changed was my conception of time
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and where I was putting in, um, let's say the chitchat at work and the meaningless meetings
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Sometimes you're like, you know what?
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If I don't go home by that time, I'm not going to see my son.
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And that's not something that I'm going to compromise.
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Um, yet I was also in a, in an environment where when I was traveling and I had to be
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1000%, it was so much better to be doing this job outside of home.
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Otherwise the guilt just wouldn't let you go.
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And I still have this to this day when I go to some of my engagements during the week
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for myself and I have to leave the kids at home.
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So I would rather leave from work because it's easier to leave work than to leave home.
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So that these days, which is Thursdays, I go to work the whole day and I go from work
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to, um, my, um, my lessons so I can, uh, so I can go there freely without the mom guilt
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and the, you know, that look in the eye, the kid's eye to say, hi mom, why don't you stay
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Um, so no, I think, yeah, conception of time for sure.
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Priorities shifting, uh, I think I've always been quite responsible and for me, uh, yeah,
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when you put your attention differently, being far away from family was a bit tougher
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back then as well because then, um, there's so many micro moments that happened that you
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wish your mom and brother and sister and uncles and grandmas would be here for.
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Um, so yeah, I think obviously it, it changes a lot, uh, not to my core, but, um, yeah.
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I really agree with you on the chitchat.
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It finds, I was, you know, going back home and to see my mom, um, like every day to bath
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Like I come back from work and go in the bathtub and everything for an hour and then go back
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Um, and I've never been able to do, I mean, to do that anymore, I think.
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And you don't cancel hours.
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But on the other side, I remember, uh, you know, I had a nanny at home luckily, which
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made all of this possible too.
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And at some point I was seeing her, our hours pining up because the extra hours, obviously
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I was paying her for it.
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And, um, and I was like, I didn't realize the volume of extra hours I was doing all
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I have some, I had not realized that.
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And so it was really, um, yeah, it was really strange.
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That's, that's a hundred plus hours that I paid the, uh, yeah.
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I came to my boss and say, I'm not counting hours and I never will, but that's also the
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reality of what it's costing me.
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And I asked for a couple of holidays extra and say, I, it's not about the money.
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I just, I just need a bit of a rest.
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And, um, and so then we part ways with the children who grew up together, they're really
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They go to kindergarten together.
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They're really, they speak together.
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I think Mandarin, um, a couple of years in French, I think now, and they see each other
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and they speak English.
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Um, and so we part ways.
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For me, I would add also like massive slap in the face when, um, well, you know, when
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Manon was born, I really felt like I was pushing consumption in China and that needed to change.
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Like I, I felt really bad about my work.
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I think it was really from the moment she landed on my tummy after birth, it was like
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a, a gigantic slap of like, how are you using your brain?
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What are you bringing to this planet?
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Like, you know, what a waste of your talent.
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And, uh, and that was quite, um, a massive, um, setback with a big question, but kind
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Um, so we part ways.
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When did you leave China?
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What do you remember?
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So same time as us.
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Do you remember the month or I, uh, we left in August.
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Well, I left, uh, end of June, uh, had a couple of work trips to do before.
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Um, and then, yeah, we moved into Singapore early August.
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I didn't realize that we left exactly at the same time.
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I don't have a very good recollection of that time because I was also had just given birth
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And so, you know, your memories are slightly more fuzzy, um, um, and so you go to Singapore
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and you know, I go to New Zealand, um, and then we meet again when you're pregnant with
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We were passing by Singapore for work, I believe.
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And we had, uh, we had lunch together at, uh, Intercon, I believe, in Singapore.
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And, uh, yeah, yeah.
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And I was pregnant with Mattia, which happened, uh, a bit by surprise and, uh, it was, uh,
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it was great because my husband was still back and forth between China and Singapore
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Um, and then we, we, we just pregnant again, the choice he had to go and, and join the
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family in Singapore.
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And that was, uh, yes, that was probably early 2016.
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So when did your migraines start for the first time?
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That started after the birth, um, and that was, uh, that was a bit unsettling.
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I honestly didn't put the term migraine to it for up until I met you, um, again in 2020.
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Um, I was, uh, but yeah, it was, for me, it was like massive headaches, um, and I was
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just feeling so sick and being in Asia, having lived in China and in Singapore, which a traditional
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Chinese medicine is very much around, but I feel like I tried everything, uh, was it
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Was it my posture at work?
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Um, was it my teeth grinding?
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Was it my eyesight?
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Uh, I checked my spine.
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I discussed with my OBGYN.
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I mean, I really feel like I did everything.
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Um, and some stuff were working.
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Um, you know, you do some cupping or some, you know, acupuncture, things like this, but
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two weeks later, it was just back for speed and, um, and I was just constantly popping
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medicine and you just don't realize, I mean, at some point you don't realize cause you're
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so afraid of the, of the pain.
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Um, and so you just prevent it as much as you can because you know, once you're down
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into that cycle, you're just not going to get out of it.
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Um, and it was really, really tough.
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It was not a very long in time.
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It was about two, three days compared to others.
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Um, but it was the frequency.
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It was just, uh, yeah, it was really...
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When you were having a migraine attack, like what did it look like?
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Well, there was a lot of fatigue before, uh, but I could not really, I think, link it to
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it because I was just, you know, traveling.
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I was literally going around Singapore.
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I was known for going around town with my suitcase.
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I literally had to carry on with me all the time with all my chargers, my files and what
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have you, because I was just always on the go in between planes and things.
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Um, and so definitely fatigue, uh, sensitivity to sound with children is difficult.
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Too light, which in Singapore, very sunny place, uh, was difficult.
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And so, um, so yeah, it was, uh, and that this, this pain, uh, that's indescribable,
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um, crippling really.
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I mean, it's just like getting to your room in the dark, uh, with a hot bottle on my tummy
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and my husband helping out with massage and, uh, not able to eat much.
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It was just really, really, yeah, crippling really.
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And, and yeah, having to cancel on some plans because your, your head hurts and you just
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didn't manage to stop it in time and you fell into the styro, uh, it's really difficult.
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It's very isolating.
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It's, it's, for me, it's really memories.
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I think the pain, maybe your mind in a way kind of forgets, just like when you give birth,
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you have to forget, otherwise you wouldn't go back.
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Um, then nature is probably done this way, but, um, the, the, the feeling of loneliness,
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that's something that, uh, that was really striking to me.
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And honestly, my husband was a champion, was really helpful.
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Uh, but you have this, this old joke, cause I, Oh, you have a headache.
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So when you have a headache, not too late to do like, gosh, this is me.
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Uh, that was, yeah, I think even, you know, maybe socially or mentally, it's like, okay,
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I'm, I'm this woman, like, you know, it was like this big, uh, cliche that was hanging
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Why did you feel isolated?
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You can't share pain, right?
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You can say anything you want, but, uh, no matter what anybody can try to do for you,
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sharing pain and having somebody to understand what you're going through, uh, it's like,
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come on, it's just a headache.
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No, it's not just a headache.
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I'm like in massive pain.
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And you know, pain as a woman, you have PMS and contractions and a lot of things in your
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life that are difficult when you're from a very young age, actually you're, you're groomed
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to handle pain from 11 or 12 years old.
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It's very, very young.
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I mean, I'm literally teaching my son now what his classmates are going through at this
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It's like, you know, uh, your girlfriends that are going through what I'm going through,
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but it's very new to them and it's very frightening and we're not talking about it.
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The, the pain, yeah.
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Like I said that I was really supported, um, and I had had a home, so I know that if, if
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I was not able to feed my children, somebody would, um, but it was, yeah, it was very lonely,
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very, very lonely.
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And it's also not to be able to talk to somebody who understands it's, if, if you have not
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lived through that, it's very difficult to, to understand how much, um, how difficult
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So what happened with you?
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So I moved to Singapore in 2015 when we meet, uh, early 2016, you're already in New Zealand,
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still with McKinsey.
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What, what was up with you by then?
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I had transferred internally at McKinsey and I thought I'd put myself in an internal role.
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I visualize it as a parking lot to decide what I do with my life.
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Um, I was still, I was still really in search of meaning.
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And I remember one of our friends in the halls from Shanghai, when I would change roles,
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she'd say, Oh, it's the story of your life.
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I'm like, no, I'm just, I'm generally in quest of, you know, of, of my purpose.
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Um, and so after that, I worked for, uh, Fonterra for two years, uh, which is large dairy company,
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um, which is a cooperative, actually a farmer's, um, and that role taught me how to incubate
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Cause when we were in China, um, I, um, I met with Dr. Jiang.
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I don't know if she, if she knew her, um, you told me about her back then.
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I think you shared your masseuse name, which helped me a lot, but I did not meet Dr. Jiang.
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She was fabulous too.
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And so I met Dr. Jiang and Dr. Jiang really changed my life actually when I was pregnant
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and probably hadn't seen her in days because back then I didn't know you yet.
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And then we just met, but she basically transformed my health.
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Um, so after I had a skiing accident when I was 17 and I lost half of my blood and which
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relates to why you were having migraines, we took my half of my blood instantly.
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And uh, I shrunk a kidney and I had a skin in the forehead.
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So all my face was bruised for a month.
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Um, the, like literally like purple, yellow, black, like such as if I had been in a big
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And, um, I was never transfused.
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There had been issues with contaminated blood in 2001.
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And so they said, we don't have enough blood in the bank.
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We think that she's just gonna make it, she can make it.
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And so there's so many things that in my body went out of whack.
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Um, and, and you met me when she, at the time she transformed me because she transformed
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me when I was pregnant.
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And she basically fixed my body just with foods and it was just a miracle.
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She pulled off a miracle.
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Um, and I had been living, you know, um, with problems for about 12 years, uh, like female
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stuff, you know, like, uh, morning balances, weights, um, really long cycles.
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My cycles were eight days, 36, 15, I remember, um, so like getting pregnant was a question
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of temperature taking, et cetera.
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I was, was reasonably fast, but also because like you, you know, 29 for first pregnancy
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was on this, on that sort of conservative end of the spectrum.
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Um, and so she changed my life.
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And so after that, my dream was to study that and to create food as medicine.
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But I didn't dare, I think I didn't dare sort of come out of the closet with that idea.
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And I thought it wasn't possible, et cetera.
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And so before taking the role at Fonterra, I already wanted to do that, but I didn't
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I thought I can do it on sleep, on stress.
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You know, I really want to give and, and, and, um, right.
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And take these type of doctors that do this and then, and then put her like in an AI so
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that you know what to take when for women's health, but it wasn't possible.
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And then I went to Fonterra and there I learned I was spending three hours with the CEO every,
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uh, every week, two to three.
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I was a phenomenal role and I learned how to incubate ideas.
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And at that time I helped my sister get over her migraines, uh, and then the, and then
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another friend of mine whose father was a neurologist.
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And I think that was the trigger because helping her, I thought, Hey, that's really bizarre.
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Like her dad is advocating for a lifetime of injections, um, injected in her body and
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her brain is saying for it's for 50 years, barely 36.
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Even for her migraines.
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And I thought that doesn't make any sense.
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And so I helped her and within four months, she had no migraines and I thought, hold on,
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Why would he tell her to take medications?
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And I knew nothing about migraines back then and tried to investigate it.
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I tried to discover you need a genetic predisposition to have migraines.
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Just one 40 was lucky that we give migraine.
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I started to find out that women had them three to four times more than men.
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So 18% of women have migraines.
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Whereas boys and girls have 5% chance to have them.
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It triples to quadruples for women.
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Um, but I also, and yeah, there's close to zero research on it and, um, in our next podcast,
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we're going to talk with, um, uh, uh, Grace who, um, works with me and is in her last
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year studying, uh, biomedicine and neuroscience, no teaching on that whatsoever as the first
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cause of disability worldwide.
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And so I really started to dig out the papers.
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I found really old papers dating from 1985.
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We're going to do a podcast on that way on, um, on foods and things that have been proven
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in Western science, um, in the last, you know, four years.
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Um, and I tried to dig out proof of what I had done.
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Um, and, and I thought, why did her dad, like her dad not tell her?
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Um, and I think it's the naive day was great because I thought, Oh, I can do now this missing
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What a great answer.
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I had no idea of the level of complexity I was getting.
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I had repaired two out of two and I thought therefore there was three or four reasons
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why a woman might have migraines.
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And I started to pull together things in Excel and had a list of 30 questions and this is
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of about 30 foods.
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I remember my first assessment was on WhatsApp.
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You remember you sent me this, I think it was 36, 39 questions.
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And so this is where we meet again.
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We meet on my way back to New Zealand from Europe.
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So I'm from Belgium.
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And so on my way back, we go through Singapore and we come and visit you at your place.
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And your husband came.
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My husband came to you and, uh, and we're talking about it and I think you stopped him
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Your wife has migraines.
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It's like, I was like, well, it's like everything you're describing is like, it was so funny
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because I, at this, at that stage I was still, you know, like in my family come from a family
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So they were like, really, are you really doing this full time?
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You need to go back and stuff.
[23:48]
And I'm like, what I want to do does not exist in school books.
[23:51]
I think there's a big problem.
[23:53]
I think a lot of women are led to believe they need to lead a medicated life, but there's
[23:58]
And so my parents were really pushing, it's like, okay, so you're going back to medical
[24:03]
And I'm like, no, cause I'm not going to learn that.
[24:06]
And so it was really hard.
[24:07]
So when your husband asked for my job, I was like, ah, you know, let me help you explain.
[24:13]
Plus my husband found I was explaining it really bad.
[24:16]
So I'm like, okay, I'm just listening for, you know, sort of reaching the eye for migraines.
[24:22]
And because he's in tech and he studied traditional Chinese medicine himself, he got it instantly.
[24:29]
And it was the first time I met someone who actually got it within a minute.
[24:35]
He's like, yeah, I'm absolutely familiar with what you're saying.
[24:39]
And then he also got the third dimension, which is debilitating.
[24:44]
And so this was a really fruitful conversation.
[24:48]
And I was shying away a bit from him, but he took me out and said, look, no, no, just
[24:52]
let's talk about this.
[24:54]
And he said, Marine has migraines and I'm like, I was in your sofa, I was three meters
[25:00]
And I said, I would remember, like she would have mentioned, and I didn't know back then
[25:03]
what a migraine was, but I would remember.
[25:07]
He doesn't know what she does.
[25:08]
And I'm like, there's no way she doesn't.
[25:11]
And then, and he, she, she calls you out and says, Marine.
[25:20]
And then I remember you sent me on WhatsApp these questions and we went through it and
[25:23]
that was the beginning of a, yeah, of a remission, really.
[25:26]
I mean, it's, it was mind blowing.
[25:30]
I remember reading the question, I was like, really, am I telling you this?
[25:33]
It's a question I'm just so out of it, you know, and also, you know, irregular when you're
[25:41]
thinking about, I mean, even being used to Chinese, traditional Chinese medicine, some
[25:46]
of them, you're like, really, am I sharing this with you as my friend too, you know?
[25:51]
It was really strange, but, you know, proof is, it worked and it was definitely the right
[25:57]
And it was only, what, half of what you're asking today, maybe?
[26:02]
So it was about 36 questions, now I asked 94.
[26:07]
And I remember before helping you out, I had sworn myself in that flight.
[26:12]
I am no longer taking anyone outside of the continent, I'm going to focus the geography.
[26:19]
And then, and I was like, okay, there's no way I can leave Marine in this level of pain.
[26:24]
That's really unkind, ungiving, let me help her out.
[26:28]
And then I stopped, you know, like helping people worldwide, I focused on her new universe.
[26:35]
And yeah, and so 36 questions, I think the reason why I increased them is because there's
[26:41]
so many additional reasons I have fonts and other things.
[26:45]
And dimensions, absolutely.
[26:48]
You see cases and it gives another light into it and you're like, okay, that could trigger
[26:55]
I have the, you know, thanks to these years together and now I hear my friends and, you
[26:59]
know, you can socially meet people for years and then you're like, okay, well, are you
[27:03]
suffering from this?
[27:04]
Well, hold on, let me introduce you to Diane.
[27:07]
And yeah, it's very, it's such a big realization that, you know, even when I, I mean, we'll
[27:15]
get back into that, I'm sure in a minute, but when I had my OB-GYN issues, I was very
[27:23]
surprised about the lack of talk around it and like, well, this is something that touches
[27:27]
everyone that can become pretty catastrophic if you don't take care of it.
[27:33]
It's not necessarily diagnosed on a yearly basis or, you know, checked for and, and it's,
[27:39]
you know, if I didn't have that doctor or I don't know, in some sort of intuition about
[27:43]
getting rid of it, I wouldn't have, you know, I wouldn't have a uterus today, basically.
[27:49]
And so, you know, it's, it's very, it's very strange how, I don't know how you say in English,
[27:57]
you know, you, you won't share such personal things, even amongst women, sometimes it's,
[28:03]
I don't know, I'm not sure men talk about this either, obviously, but I know we treat
[28:08]
women like there's certain things that you, you wouldn't think about sharing with your
[28:14]
Where really you should.
[28:15]
And even with your, with your children, like asking your children questions, yeah, we,
[28:22]
we don't as a society, we don't.
[28:25]
It became, I don't know if it became or always has been, but very taboo to speak about.
[28:30]
I mean, it was a lot of the time it was feelings and, but I think health is another taboo as
[28:35]
well out there where I'm speaking about how you're feeling.
[28:41]
And as you become aware of it, I think for me, I'm after close to 15 years in Asia, you
[28:46]
become very aware of, and thanks to the work we did together of the signs and the signals
[28:52]
that your body is saying, like, oh, I'm craving bad quality chocolate and junk food.
[28:57]
What does it mean?
[28:58]
Like, it's not, it's not a natural behavior.
[29:00]
It's not a natural craving.
[29:01]
I should not be craving Nutella.
[29:04]
Like it does not, you know, I'm not made for this.
[29:09]
I love it, but it's not healthy.
[29:12]
So what is going on with me that I'm craving very, very much this type of food or suddenly
[29:17]
spicy food or that I'm actually looking for only fresh fruits and veggies right now, or
[29:23]
I just want grilled meat.
[29:24]
It's like, how are you, you know, leaving space for this craving, looking at them with
[29:30]
two step backs as well and say, okay, I've seen this before.
[29:34]
I'm probably in a, you know, low blood deficiency.
[29:38]
I might be in, you know, you know, in another situation or maybe my periods are coming.
[29:45]
So I need to get a bit more iron, things like this.
[29:48]
So your body is literally sending signal and say, hey, you need this right now.
[29:54]
You need, I don't know, oranges and lemon.
[29:57]
You need apples and dates, you know, things like this.
[30:00]
So, and it's hard to make the difference between what your body signals that are sending that
[30:05]
are correct and the ones that are like, not like, oh, I want to go to McDonald's.
[30:10]
No, no, not correct.
[30:13]
But if you want to go to McDonald's every time in the month at the same time, like,
[30:18]
ha, okay, now I have a, you know, a light blinking saying, oh, imbalance, something's
[30:24]
wrong and there's something to fix here because that's not natural.
[30:29]
So do you want to talk about, like, did we remove foods for you?
[30:33]
Do you want to talk a little bit about that?
[30:34]
We added, we added in yummy food that was very, it was so easy to implement, honestly.
[30:40]
I think the ones that were essential in this list were raspberries, almonds, and goji berries.
[30:48]
So, I mean, in places like Singapore, pretty easy to find.
[30:54]
And we really had easily access to that.
[30:57]
I think we had chamomile tea as well, and I'm still drinking some with my goji berries now.
[31:01]
So it's part of my habit.
[31:04]
And yeah, very easy.
[31:07]
And it was striking to see the effect within just a few weeks.
[31:11]
I think for me, it was six to eight weeks.
[31:15]
And it was really, really striking.
[31:18]
And there was a lot of underlying.
[31:21]
And if you recall, I had quite a lot of blood tests along the months leading to our meetup.
[31:27]
So I had quite a lot of records of where I was.
[31:31]
And when I saw the doctor two months later, it's like, what happened?
[31:37]
And so I started telling you about what you were doing and what we did together
[31:40]
and the scrutiny around it was like, how can that be?
[31:44]
Like, you almost doubled your blood volume.
[31:46]
And I was like, literally borderline, you know,
[31:50]
needing a transfusion because my blood volume was so low.
[31:53]
And I was at the end of my rope, I was exhausted.
[31:57]
And that's exactly when we met.
[32:00]
And yeah, literally two months later, after we started,
[32:04]
my blood volume was just back to healthy levels and iron and everything.
[32:09]
It's like, what happened?
[32:11]
Like, what did you do?
[32:12]
Like, I just ate raspberry almonds and goji berries.
[32:19]
And it's funny how, yeah, your doctor called me.
[32:24]
Because he said, what supplements do you use?
[32:26]
And he meant your supplements, what brand, what...
[32:30]
I'm like, oh, just foods, just foods, like seriously.
[32:34]
And so she couldn't believe it because she's like, even with supplements,
[32:37]
she told me, even with supplements, I can't have results like that and I can't do it.
[32:43]
And I love that you mentioned blood volume because it's that accident that I had had
[32:49]
where it dropped and that list of food and that massive empathy while I don't have migraines,
[32:55]
I know exactly what it is like to have these massive cravings where you're out of control.
[33:01]
And in spite, you try to look nice to be in your tight suits and have it all.
[33:09]
You're like, I am courageous.
[33:12]
I'm in a meeting and I'm like, I'm just...
[33:16]
I'm just, yeah, I can intervene also when I'm like binge, you know,
[33:20]
eating after I remember it, you know, or before.
[33:24]
And for me, it was the same, you know, it was like that.
[33:26]
I had this sterility, this IUD, the copper one.
[33:34]
And because I had HPV and so I needed to have it removed.
[33:41]
And then after this, I was like, I don't want to take hormones anymore
[33:45]
because the cancer thing scared me.
[33:47]
And I'm like, okay, let's just stop and I'll do something a bit more natural.
[33:51]
So I went with the copper IUD.
[33:53]
And I mean, I really love my OB, but it didn't let me bleed out for 18 months.
[33:59]
And I didn't know any better.
[34:02]
And similarly, one more thing that we don't share among girlfriend.
[34:06]
Remember, I was using these caps at the time to avoid tampons and stuff like this.
[34:12]
And my friend was like, oh, this is so great.
[34:13]
You put it in the morning and then, you know, by the end of the day,
[34:16]
you remove it and it's great.
[34:18]
I have to change it every hour and a half.
[34:21]
The blood I was losing on a monthly basis was crazy.
[34:24]
I was literally losing almost a year full of blood every month.
[34:28]
And I just did not have anything in my diet or lifestyle
[34:32]
or whatever to just recreate this again.
[34:34]
And it happened for so long.
[34:37]
And at the moment where I removed it, I was actually bleeding out, literally.
[34:43]
So no wonder my blood volume was out.
[34:45]
So not an accident.
[34:47]
Just a simple, I want to be more responsible with my health attitude
[34:51]
and remove the hormones, which, you know, were both very damaging.
[34:56]
Like, let's just stop that.
[34:57]
And I did even worse.
[34:59]
And how would you know?
[35:01]
How would you know what you're losing is not normal?
[35:03]
How would, there's no, very little talk about this outside
[35:08]
and or in, you know, amongst friends.
[35:13]
And I really want to take the time to pause here and explain to the audience
[35:19]
the migraine pattern that you were having.
[35:23]
This is not, this is one of the many ways in which the body can find balances.
[35:28]
And throughout the podcast, when you talk about different ways,
[35:30]
I want to explain in a case like Marine,
[35:33]
how does the domino effect play out from a lot of bleeding?
[35:37]
The bleeding can come, like for people like Marine, from a copper IUD.
[35:41]
It can also come from just a heavy menstruation,
[35:45]
which has other root causes.
[35:47]
We talk about that.
[35:48]
Why is the body bleeding so much?
[35:51]
Or it can come from blood donation.
[35:54]
I've met people who were, yeah, giving a passylator,
[36:01]
I think, four times a year.
[36:03]
So it adds up quite fast.
[36:06]
And so regardless of the root cause, or like a skiing accident like I had,
[36:10]
regardless of the reason why you're losing blood,
[36:13]
now let's imagine, so the body is four to five liters of blood
[36:20]
and you need a lot of blood to irrigate your brain.
[36:23]
So your brain is only 6% of your weight.
[36:26]
It's 20% of your energy consumption.
[36:28]
And so it requires a lot of blood to perform.
[36:32]
And now if you don't have enough, you can either digest,
[36:37]
in particular, wine, cheese, chocolate in your liver, for example,
[36:41]
or sink, or run, or digest.
[36:45]
But there's not enough blood.
[36:47]
So if you think of factory workers, instead of having 100 factory workers,
[36:51]
you only had 50 factory workers.
[36:54]
And so you were about to be transfused.
[36:56]
Now this is going to cause migraines.
[36:59]
Now, these women in particular,
[37:01]
we respond when you were taking exedrine and stuff like that,
[37:04]
I think, in the time, Esmé?
[37:06]
I was taking ketones, yeah, to keep...
[37:09]
It was really hiding the exhaustion.
[37:12]
I was taking ketones to bring my levels of energy up,
[37:17]
to keep my weight down.
[37:18]
I was not drinking coffee or anything, so I had no caffeine input.
[37:22]
And at a certain age with two children,
[37:24]
and the lifestyle that we had, it was tough.
[37:27]
So I just needed to be held with something.
[37:30]
I just couldn't go on on my own.
[37:32]
And that was really hiding a lot of my symptoms.
[37:35]
Because you take this, and within 30 minutes,
[37:37]
you're just high as a kite,
[37:38]
and you just go and take on the world,
[37:39]
which is what I was doing on a daily basis,
[37:41]
even on the weekend,
[37:42]
because you don't want to be like, you know,
[37:44]
1,000% on the weekend,
[37:46]
and then just be, you know,
[37:47]
off on the floor for your family in the weekend.
[37:50]
So yes, I was really just fighting it all.
[37:52]
Other women, what they do in the Netherlands,
[37:55]
they take triptals,
[37:56]
and triptals will contract the blood vessel
[37:59]
to force the blood back up.
[38:02]
So now let's imagine having a glass of wine,
[38:05]
or I'm eating chocolate or cheese,
[38:07]
my blood will concentrate in my liver in order to detox.
[38:11]
Now, if my brain isn't happy and manifesting that migraine,
[38:16]
because genetically, I have a fire alarm
[38:19]
that's going to fire up message
[38:21]
just to signal that there's a problem.
[38:23]
I take a triptal, the blood is sent back to my brain.
[38:27]
But it's also a bit intoxicated,
[38:29]
that blood is not supposed to be there.
[38:32]
And so the more I'm going to do that,
[38:34]
the more it's going to be hard for my body
[38:37]
to reproduce my blood effectively.
[38:39]
And so the more that's going to happen,
[38:41]
the more my liver is not able to perform.
[38:45]
So it's going to start to be sluggish.
[38:46]
I'm going to feel a bloating,
[38:48]
numbness in the arms and the legs,
[38:50]
migraines on the temple, on the top of the head.
[38:53]
I'm going to feel my breasts sore.
[38:55]
I'm going to have more PMS, et cetera.
[38:57]
And so over time, as my liver is not fully functioning
[38:59]
because it's not benefiting that blood
[39:02]
as it needs to function properly,
[39:04]
then I'm going to have more intoxication of my liver.
[39:08]
And I'm going to feel more angry inside or outside
[39:12]
to express or repress anger.
[39:14]
Maybe at my children, I'm going to have more migraines,
[39:16]
especially before menstruation.
[39:21]
But then over time,
[39:22]
I'm going to start to develop light sensitivity
[39:24]
because the liver system needs to take care of,
[39:28]
you know, dealing with light, et cetera, et cetera.
[39:30]
And so here you have a case, it spirals down.
[39:34]
And the problem is the medication
[39:37]
will add to the load of toxicity.
[39:39]
Hence the fact that in Western science,
[39:44]
we talk about migraine overuse,
[39:47]
medication overuse of headaches,
[39:49]
MOH, or migraine rebounds.
[39:52]
Just the migraines that result from an overuse of medication,
[39:57]
which happens fast.
[39:58]
You don't need to take that many to be in that category.
[40:02]
And so it does, you know, it brings out new imbalances.
[40:07]
And so I just wanted to illustrate,
[40:09]
yeah, you were lacking blood volume.
[40:14]
And it can be C-sections.
[40:16]
I think you've seen lots of cases
[40:19]
with women in the past few years,
[40:21]
but if you start adding up everything you've been through,
[40:25]
I was donating my blood when I was 18 in France
[40:28]
and then in China.
[40:29]
And then I had to stop in Singapore
[40:31]
because they were not accepting European blood.
[40:35]
And thank God I stopped
[40:37]
because I was already not at capacity.
[40:41]
You had two C-sections
[40:43]
and I mean, I didn't have anything else serious,
[40:45]
but it just adds up.
[40:48]
And so, yeah, it can really shift in a year
[40:51]
and you enter the world of migraines
[40:55]
and you're like, okay, what is this?
[40:58]
And it's like, okay, maybe I'm just stressed.
[40:59]
Maybe I'm just tired.
[41:00]
And you're like, no, I'm not.
[41:01]
Okay, it's just, it's more than this.
[41:04]
And then you start everything and anything to get rid of it.
[41:07]
And there's so many scams out there.
[41:10]
You go to some chiropractors and things
[41:13]
and I have great ones that I, or a theopath.
[41:16]
But sometimes there's just scammers out there as well.
[41:18]
And you get there, they're like,
[41:19]
oh yeah, you look your spine here.
[41:21]
So we're gonna do this
[41:22]
and have to pay thousands of dollars.
[41:24]
And you're educated woman.
[41:27]
But at some point, the pain talks for you.
[41:30]
And you're like, should I?
[41:31]
Let's just give it a try.
[41:32]
What if this works?
[41:33]
What if this frees me from pain?
[41:35]
What if it could make a difference?
[41:37]
And you're ready to do anything.
[41:40]
Ready to do anything.
[41:41]
So when I met you, I had given up.
[41:44]
I had tried so many things.
[41:45]
I had seen any type of doctors.
[41:50]
Indian, Chinese, you know, foreigners,
[41:53]
Westerners and everything.
[41:55]
And you're like, I don't think anybody gets it.
[41:58]
So yeah, you really came at a time when I was like,
[42:00]
well, I'm just gonna keep my stock of medicine.
[42:04]
When this one doesn't work anymore,
[42:05]
I'll go to the higher level.
[42:07]
And that's how you get to something really damaging.
[42:11]
It's quite early in your life.
[42:12]
It's just so true.
[42:16]
But yeah, the lack of understanding,
[42:18]
I see it even here and around me on some girlfriends
[42:21]
and I keep sending them to you.
[42:22]
You know, one thing happened is I remember you.
[42:26]
So we go through that and you're doing so much better
[42:28]
and you're just immensely grateful.
[42:32]
And so two things happen usually is,
[42:34]
number one, women are immensely grateful.
[42:36]
Number two, they suddenly have more time.
[42:38]
Because you forecast migraines and it's not coming
[42:41]
and you're suddenly like,
[42:42]
whoop, I have that extra time and extra energy
[42:46]
and plenty of love.
[42:47]
And I remember I put my website together
[42:52]
and I had just finished it.
[42:53]
And I go to bed and I'm thinking,
[42:56]
oh, fudge, and tomorrow I have to go on social media,
[42:59]
which is really for me hard.
[43:00]
Now we're going hard at it
[43:01]
because I think it comes from an absolute place of love.
[43:06]
But I was like, oh gosh, you know,
[43:08]
I have to do this.
[43:09]
And then I wake up and the next day,
[43:12]
I have a hundred women on the website
[43:15]
with like 20 passing the test.
[43:18]
And I had no idea where it came from
[43:20]
because it had come from all over the world.
[43:23]
It wasn't created in Singapore.
[43:25]
Do you want to comment on what you had?
[43:29]
I think I've seen, it was that post on Facebook.
[43:33]
I was in this group of women in Singapore, a French group.
[43:39]
I mean, you know, when you've lived abroad,
[43:41]
you really see people coming together
[43:44]
and helping each other out.
[43:45]
And people, you would not necessarily do this
[43:47]
in your home country,
[43:49]
but there you really, people really come together.
[43:51]
And the women have a lot of power for that.
[43:53]
They're very, we're very strong with this.
[43:56]
And so I had commented on the,
[43:58]
I don't remember if I did a post or if I commented.
[44:01]
And yeah, the input like from women all over the place,
[44:05]
because these women in Singapore,
[44:07]
they tend to go out, right?
[44:08]
I mean, we all spend a couple of years
[44:09]
and at some point you change countries.
[44:11]
So, and I'm still on that group today,
[44:13]
even though I left Singapore a few years ago.
[44:15]
So anything that goes up there,
[44:17]
I would still see it from Dubai today.
[44:19]
And yeah, it really snowballed
[44:22]
and people were just talking to each other.
[44:23]
And it's such a personal yet shared problem
[44:27]
that we all have and we don't talk about.
[44:29]
And at some point, some, one of them,
[44:31]
you know, one of us is like,
[44:32]
okay, I want to just say something.
[44:35]
And then people are like,
[44:36]
yes, me too, me too, me too from everywhere.
[44:38]
And it poured in, but you know,
[44:40]
I had the exact same effect in my own family.
[44:43]
I started talking about it
[44:44]
because you're so liberated
[44:46]
and I just wanted to scream, I'm free.
[44:50]
I'm healthy again.
[44:51]
Like I don't have to,
[44:53]
I'm not in pain and I'm not frightened anymore.
[44:57]
You know, you talk about the solitude and the pain,
[45:00]
the fear that you have that maybe tomorrow you're not going to be able to do this.
[45:05]
Which other, you know, Parkinson's have the same thing and a lot of other diseases have.
[45:10]
But for something that looks so simple as a migraine, which people call wrongfully headaches,
[45:18]
and you're like, well, actually, maybe tomorrow I'm not going to be able to do this. So I always
[45:21]
also had this sense of urgency to do things all the time right now, because I don't know if I'm
[45:26]
going to be able to do that tomorrow. I might just not be capable to get out of my bed.
[45:30]
And now it's more relaxed. But even in my own family, I remember telling my grandma,
[45:37]
it's like, oh, yeah, I had migraines when I was young. Like what? New slash?
[45:42]
Yeah, I was not on my medical history, grandma. Yeah. And yeah, and my dad, like, yeah,
[45:47]
I remember your grandma. She was in a room and and in a lot of pain. And I had no idea.
[45:52]
No idea. Yeah, it's it's it has a bit of a stigma. I have seen my family, my grandmother
[45:59]
at the end too. And it took me to do this to realize what people meant when we were saying
[46:05]
grandma is having a nap. You know, with not poorly intended, but thinking she's just, you know,
[46:12]
having a nice roll. They're not keen to prepare a Christmas dinner or contribute. But no,
[46:19]
what's that level of pain? Yeah. And I also remember vividly your husband,
[46:27]
he was starting to really he was observing you with a distance. And I have since then
[46:32]
connected with a lot of husbands who observes the movie because they see the movie. They see
[46:38]
the emotion is like, OK, hold on. She's medicating now every day and she's never leaving house
[46:45]
without her medication. So it's part of her purse, her phone and her medication
[46:52]
anywhere she goes. And so he was really concerned about that, because and I see
[46:57]
other husbands in particular, they see the pain, but they see, oh, my God, it's actually going
[47:03]
worse. It's not improving. Hiding them, because then you're ashamed and you're like, you don't
[47:08]
want to get caught. And so you're hiding the fact that you're taking. So I had this, you know,
[47:13]
another tablet, like that thing, and I was hiding it somewhere else so he wouldn't see that I would
[47:18]
take from the main one, but I would take from the backup one that he was not seeing and like
[47:22]
throwing it in the garbage outside the home so that the nanny wouldn't find it in our trash.
[47:27]
And like, you're really a junkie. And it's it was nothing. It was Neurofen and hydroprofen.
[47:34]
I didn't go very high. But then you take the 200 and then you move to the 400 and then you take
[47:39]
two. And it's just it escalates like this. And you don't see it because you're just so afraid.
[47:45]
You're so afraid of the pain and you don't want to cut off yourself from your family and from,
[47:51]
you know, anything social or your life with your spouse or anything. But at some point,
[47:58]
so you just have to hide to make sure that you can hold it, you can keep it together. And yeah,
[48:06]
I really, you know, and when I think about it and I understand he was worried. I could not
[48:11]
understand when he brought it to me, though, because for me, he could not understand the pain.
[48:15]
And so he didn't have much to say about how I was managing it, especially because I had done
[48:20]
so much to fix it and nothing was working. Literally anything around my head, I think my jaw,
[48:27]
my eyes, my ears, my spine, everything, everything. And then you start talking, looking about,
[48:34]
you know, your gut and your and your back and, you know, your feet like, OK, maybe I don't know,
[48:40]
something is unbalanced and it's causing tension and it's like creating this.
[48:44]
Yeah. And everything is chemical. And that's the thing is people will tell me I'm seeing an
[48:49]
acupuncturist and I'm like, it's great. And I do encourage and recommend them, you know,
[48:54]
and on heart. If you have half of your blood volume, nothing physical can change that.
[49:01]
Yeah, absolutely. Sometimes I find it's misinterpreted for iron deficiency, for anemia.
[49:08]
And they would say, oh, yeah, right. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, sometimes it's a lot more than I need.
[49:11]
I learned the difference with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's not the same.
[49:16]
It's not the same. It's a proxy, but it's not. Yeah. A woman will lose 23 to 28 litres of
[49:22]
menstruation in her ears and not all menstruation is blood, but it's a large component. So it's a
[49:29]
huge amount that a woman needs to constantly reproduce.
[49:33]
Absolutely. Absolutely. And especially as we evolve into lifestyle,
[49:38]
when we eat less meat and we have, you know, and no more also milk, which I think is healthy,
[49:43]
right? In many ways, but also it's finding, you know, sources to still find these nutrients
[49:51]
somewhere. Also being able to absorb them because one of the big learnings as well on our journey
[49:56]
was to learn that you can load yourself with this, but if you don't have the other routine
[50:00]
to fix it, it's just going to go out and you're just going to keep on filling a bucket that's,
[50:06]
you know, five holes into it. And so it's plucking the holes first and then focusing
[50:12]
on bringing the right nutrients. So, you know, I think, you know, for me, this awareness was
[50:17]
so precious. And the foods I find, I rarely talk about foods that are sad because it's all of the
[50:22]
foods in the supermarket really. And it's going to differ so much woman by woman, right? Because
[50:28]
some interact with medications, some are not in their binders, some... We also have, for example,
[50:34]
raspberries, we have other ramifications. For example, someone who is close to perimenopause,
[50:41]
raspberries on their own is not going to suit them because it's too warm in nature. And so
[50:44]
eats a lot of yin to make evening migraines worse. And so there's lots of foods that are
[50:50]
end reliever, end triggers at the same time. And so it depends on everyone's imbalances. And so
[50:58]
by now it's 94 questions, it's also 150 foods, it's also 1,500 medications and their interactions
[51:05]
with groups to make sure that we respect the integrity of medication. Because while we were
[51:10]
working together, we were still allowed medication, right? Right. Yeah, you know, I mean, it's like,
[51:16]
because it's really a crutch, right? So it's very scary to say, I can't do that anymore.
[51:22]
And you don't want to go into a relationship where I'm not a hide from you that I've taken one or
[51:28]
not. And for you, it's also very important to know what's going on and what's interacting
[51:34]
with what and what are the levels of pain that I'm expecting or fear, fearing. And so, yeah,
[51:40]
so I think this relationship of trust was also very important. And feeling that you got it,
[51:46]
that you had somebody who had your back, that was like,
[51:50]
they see me emotional, just talking about it. So yeah, it's, yeah, it's really something. It's,
[51:57]
and you know, I've, I was seeing functional doctors and things and, you know, have a holistic
[52:03]
view of what, what happens. I think one of the image that you have that, that speaks the most
[52:09]
to me is that when you have this alarm going, taking a medication will just like smash the
[52:14]
alarm, but it's just not going to stop the fire. And so now it's really all about where is the
[52:19]
fire? What do I need to know? It's like, when your bath is overflowing, you stop the tap,
[52:26]
don't bring in more towels. And it's a bit like that. It's really that. So yeah, that's,
[52:31]
that's still an image that sticks in my mind and that I use when I, when I meet people.
[52:37]
And I tend to talk about it a lot. And I mean, I mean, I'm bringing you people all the time.
[52:42]
Um, but also because, um, I think the awareness is really a big part of it. And even sometimes
[52:48]
stranger, I literally had the lunch with a woman I, I met in line of work and she came to Dubai
[52:54]
and say, shall we have lunch? Sure. And within 40 minutes, we're talking about health and migraines
[52:59]
and, and how amazing is, you know, uh, nectar health and what you're doing. So for me, it's,
[53:05]
it's almost, I'm on, I'm on a mission as well to help more women, uh, to not fall into the traps
[53:10]
that I fell in. And, um, yeah, to, to, I think collectively, you know, the, the approach itself.
[53:17]
And it's funny because, you know, we keep, um, trying to prove, uh, what has been there.
[53:24]
Let food be your medicine. I mean, how old is this foot literally, uh, and traditional Chinese
[53:30]
medicine and what you've done to, to make it accessible to the world with AI. For me,
[53:36]
it's mind blowing. It's like, should be funded by governments.
[53:42]
I'm honestly, I'm thinking about it with Singapore because it's so costly society,
[53:46]
but, you know, I think governments would be open, but I think it's so costly. Um,
[53:52]
and so I, uh, yeah, I think that's something I would love a couple of years.
[53:58]
Um, as, as a few words of closing, um, what advice would you have for women who suffer from
[54:05]
migraines, women, men, and children? Yeah, I'm happy you, you mentioned, uh,
[54:12]
men and children because whereas, you know, we're, you know, the biggest bulk, uh, I see it in
[54:16]
children too, and that they can be really, really tough, obviously for them to experience things so
[54:21]
young, uh, for parents who don't know how to handle it. Honestly, the, the number one advice
[54:26]
that I have is to talk about it. Um, and maybe the person, the first person you're talking to
[54:32]
is not going to understand, but hopefully if that person knows the person that I know,
[54:36]
then maybe you will get referred to a better, to you, uh, and that will really make such a
[54:42]
difference. Um, so yeah, for me, it's really awareness and talking about it and, uh, about
[54:48]
migraines, uh, and any other things. I had a couple of other things that I, I, I keep talking
[54:53]
to about with women. I was on a trek in Sri Lanka two months ago, and I talked to about this to the
[54:58]
guide. Uh, she's a woman, she's working, you know, in this village in Sri Lanka. And I'm like,
[55:03]
well, you know, this, this, and that's like, yeah, actually I've seen this. You're right.
[55:07]
Like, yeah, I know. Yeah. And, uh, yeah, I think the most frustrating part is not to be able to,
[55:14]
to help on the wider scale and go faster. And, uh, because the urgency when you're in pain is real
[55:22]
and, you know, it's, uh, I can feel how restless you are sometimes because you want to go faster.
[55:28]
Yeah. And, uh, and yeah, I think once you stop helping people and changing lives this way,
[55:35]
I mean, I love your job. The app is in the app store and it's in the Google play in a couple
[55:43]
of days. So amazing. We're ready to, uh, we're ready to, um, you know, bring this to the world,
[55:50]
bring to, you know, let mothers being mothers and leaders be leaders and children and be children.
[55:56]
Yeah. And then hiding, not hiding, right. It's really a, and it's a complex that a lot of women
[56:01]
have from the start is just hiding the pain away and the exhaustion and everything. And you don't
[56:08]
have to, because you don't have to be exhausted. You don't have to be in pain. Um, it's not
[56:14]
something we have to carry. It can be, you know, you can go through life differently.
[56:19]
So a lot of, and we all, I think you're being told explicitly to accept, right. I think at some
[56:28]
point the doctor told you, yeah, it's also, yeah. It's like, well, you know, kind of like you're a
[56:33]
woman come to the territory. It's awful. Yeah. It's awful. But, uh, yeah, it's like you said,
[56:40]
I mean, you, you know, the example you had from your friend back in Belgium, whose dad was in
[56:45]
Europe, uh, you know, and you're like, well, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. It's funny. Like I had
[56:52]
a friend yesterday and she was saying, um, that she was told she had migraines because she's a
[56:59]
woman. It's like, but she's like, but we had, I'm 22 and I've had 21 years without migraines and
[57:05]
one year without, but yeah, but moving forward, it's only going to be like that. So you have to
[57:09]
accept, move forward. And here's the medication. By the way, it's a thousand dollars per month.
[57:15]
Um, you know, and that's, that's the worst award. And she was like, that doesn't make any sense.
[57:21]
But if, if there's so many cookie-cutter protocols out there, right. So you start with that and then
[57:26]
we'll see. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you're bleeding out with a copper IUD. Well, let's just give it six
[57:32]
months. Really? Yeah. No, let's wait a little bit. Another six months. Sure. And a year later,
[57:40]
you're, you know, a borderline needed for transfusion. Like, well, thank you. Yeah. But
[57:46]
then you can't measure it as nothing. Yeah. Yeah. So now we're a long way to go, but I'm so glad
[57:53]
you're leading the way. It's, uh, it's, um, it's great to know that, you know, women have someone
[57:57]
in their corner who gets it. You've lived it firsthand with your sister, with friends first,
[58:03]
and then the more strangers, you know, we start as strangers and become much more. Yeah. And you
[58:09]
meet and you help. That's very true. The bond I have with these women is quite extraordinary.
[58:16]
Yeah. Imagine if we gather someone, all of them at some point. Yeah. Yeah.
[58:20]
Yeah. I love it. I think we should just, we do that, you know, like a migraine alum club,
[58:28]
you know, a physical, where you can meet, you know, people who used to suffer and no longer
[58:32]
suffer. And she, I know there'll be a lot of tears and hugs. Yeah, exactly. And she's actually,
[58:37]
and laughs and love weekend. Well, thank you so much for your time. Um, you know,
[58:45]
part of the journey, it's been an incredible journey and I've been really honored and
[58:51]
I don't know, brought to joy to do, um, a part of that walk with you. It's been wonderful.
[58:57]
Well, I'm very, I'm very humbled and very blessed that, you know, you literally came at the right
[59:02]
place at the right time back in 2020. And, uh, I'm very, uh, very humbled to do, you know,
[59:08]
anything I can to help, uh, spread the word and, um, and, and also this message of, uh,
[59:15]
of hope, uh, for women that, you know, it does not have to stay in these cycles and, um, and we
[59:22]
can, we can do better. We have to do better for ourselves first. Uh, and so, yeah, let's put
[59:27]
ourselves first. So thank you for doing that. Thank you, Marine. Bye-bye. My pleasure. See you soon.
[59:39]
Sharing is caring. So share this podcast with your loved ones or whomever it may help.
[59:46]
Follow us on social media to stay updated on our content. And if you yourself suffer from migraines,
[59:53]
then visit our website, uh, miningtownhouse.com in order to take our free tests and be assessed
[59:58]
on your migraines. All the best. Stay well, stay healthy, and stay happy. Yours, Diane.
